another 'gold' one; a Nicephorus Botaniates placeholder

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I just now brought it inside so I can post without a jinx.  I had no coins of Nicephorus B., unless I have a junk box anonymous follis kicking around, so when a sale made the price dip below $200, it was a no-brainer to buy. 

This coin would be a junk boxer in any other metal, but it's gold, or debased gold at least. I had just finished washing dishes when the mail arrived, so I haven't opened the container to handle the coin.

I ordered it from Forum and chose the registered version.  Joe warned me that registered was slow, but this was not the case this time.  It arrived in about the same time as first class would.  I chose the registered version because the coin was already broken and it's scyphate, so I hoped that registered would be sent separately from everything else.  And the postage was indeed $22, it wasn't a big markup.  Registered must be very expensive for anything other than a letter.  I could then customize my delivery date and when I opened it, the coin is in a perfect holder.  Not really suitable for display because it's kind of opaque, but just perfect for mailing. The mailer was also ideal.

Do you think it's safe to put it in a flip?  There was another broken one (sold by the time I bought this) which had more complete figures, but was a vertical break, less pleasing to the eye.

If Wikipedia is correct, Nicephorus was pretty elderly by the time of his revolt.

My previous forum buy, a nice John II Trikephalon, is easily my second favorite coin buy of the year.

Were the break at the top, I wouldn't have bought it.  Who wants a beheaded Nicephorus? Anyway, it's a cheap placeholder.  I want to also pick up a VF or better Nicephorus portrait follis in the future.

Forum description:

BZ99106. Electrum histamenon nomisma, DOC III-2 3b, Wroth BMC 7, Morrisson BnF 56/Cp/AV/01, Ratto 2051, SBCV 1881, Sommer 56.3, gVF, scyphate, broken, 1/3 missing, Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey) mint, weight 2.812g, maximum diameter 30.23mm, die axis 180^o, 1078 - 1081 A.D.; obverse Christ seated facing, throne without back, nimbus cruciger with no pellets in cross, wearing pallium and colobium, raising right hand in benediction, gospels in left hand, IC - XC (Greek abbreviation: Ihso�s Xrist�s - Jesus Christ) flanking head; reverse +NIKHFP ∆EC TW ROTANIAT, Nicephorus standing facing on footstool, bearded, wearing crown and loros, holding labarum with cross on shaft and globus cruciger, all inside double border; from the Robert Wachter Collection; $220.00 SALE PRICE $198.00

 

 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I've seen posts of how Alexius I enacted reforms where people would pay more if they used the debased coinage, but I wonder how the general population/money changers handled the situation?  The AV content also varied widely during 1071-1092.  They must have stayed in circulation for some time, as many are only F or VF.

I'm not quite sure how to search for them, but I've seen Alexius Tetertera and various anonymous folles on vcoins with Islamic counterstamps from the 1150's.  And I think some of those Islamic regimes were in Syria and Northern Iraq. Very interesting!

[quant.geek]

I posted this in another thread, but it got very little interest 😕, so let me post it here:

 

This is a scarce coin outright, and with the countermark makes it ultra-special.  There were only a few Class J folles with a counterstrike in the hoard...

 

Byzantine Empire: Anonymous Class J Æ Follis, Attributed to Alexius I Comnenus, Constantinople (Sear 1900; DOC J.1; Album 1958)

Obv: Bust of Christ Pantocrator facing, bearded, with cross behind head having on each arm, wearing tunic and himation; right hand raised in blessing in sling of cloak, left clasps book to breast. In upper angles of cross, two crescents. In field, IC - XC; Mardin Hoard Countermark #16 (لله)
Rev: Latin cross with large pellets at each extremity. Beneath the cross, large crescent. To left and right, above and below, large pellets surrounded by small pellets

Edited August 7, 2022 by quant.geek

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

9 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I just now brought it inside so I can post without a jinx.  I had no coins of Nicephorus B., unless I have a junk box anonymous follis kicking around, so when a sale made the price dip below $200, it was a no-brainer to buy. 

This coin would be a junk boxer in any other metal, but it's gold, or debased gold at least. I had just finished washing dishes when the mail arrived, so I haven't opened the container to handle the coin.

I ordered it from Forum and chose the registered version.  Joe warned me that registered was slow, but this was not the case this time.  It arrived in about the same time as first class would.  I chose the registered version because the coin was already broken and it's scyphate, so I hoped that registered would be sent separately from everything else.  And the postage was indeed $22, it wasn't a big markup.  Registered must be very expensive for anything other than a letter.  I could then customize my delivery date and when I opened it, the coin is in a perfect holder.  Not really suitable for display because it's kind of opaque, but just perfect for mailing. The mailer was also ideal.

Do you think it's safe to put it in a flip?  There was another broken one (sold by the time I bought this) which had more complete figures, but was a vertical break, less pleasing to the eye.

If Wikipedia is correct, Nicephorus was pretty elderly by the time of his revolt.

My previous forum buy, a nice John II Trikephalon, is easily my second favorite coin buy of the year.

Were the break at the top, I wouldn't have bought it.  Who wants a beheaded Nicephorus? Anyway, it's a cheap placeholder.  I want to also pick up a VF or better Nicephorus portrait follis in the future.

Forum description:

BZ99106. Electrum histamenon nomisma, DOC III-2 3b, Wroth BMC 7, Morrisson BnF 56/Cp/AV/01, Ratto 2051, SBCV 1881, Sommer 56.3, gVF, scyphate, broken, 1/3 missing, Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey) mint, weight 2.812g, maximum diameter 30.23mm, die axis 180^o, 1078 - 1081 A.D.; obverse Christ seated facing, throne without back, nimbus cruciger with no pellets in cross, wearing pallium and colobium, raising right hand in benediction, gospels in left hand, IC - XC (Greek abbreviation: Ihso�s Xrist�s - Jesus Christ) flanking head; reverse +NIKHFP ∆EC TW ROTANIAT, Nicephorus standing facing on footstool, bearded, wearing crown and loros, holding labarum with cross on shaft and globus cruciger, all inside double border; from the Robert Wachter Collection; $220.00 SALE PRICE $198.00

 

 

Nice! I have been eyeing pre 1204 coinage for a while (Basil II to Alexius III) but Im not sure my budget can handle it 😂 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Very interesting, Quant.Geek.  Most of the vcoins countermarked folles either reference the Mardin hoard or speculate that said coin is from the hoard.

No worries, TrachyEnjoyer.  My coin budget has been on the upswing, but I still count as a budget collector.

[sand]

11 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

Do you think it's safe to put it in a flip?

I wouldn't put a trachy coin in a flip. I would be worried, that the pressure of the flip, would flatten the trachy, and perhaps cause the trachy to crack. Also, if the flip were in a page of flips in slots, and if you were to put other pages of flips, on top of the page with the trachy, then that could flatten and crack the trachy.

One solution, is to put the trachy, into a coin tray, and put a photo of the trachy, in a flip.

Edited August 7, 2022 by sand

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Hmm, well it's something to consider.  The new saflips are a bit tight.  What about the old PVC ones?  Gold is rather inert. I generally put new coins in a saflip, so there should be some recent vintage soft flips kicking around.

The John II Hyperpyron is still ok (I got it in 2009), but I don't think it's a tight saflip.  It might even be in a PVC.  The few trachea that I've had since the mid-90's (in the original flips) are still ok. 

To be honest, I haven't really noticed any noticeable damage from 90's soft flips to my coins. 

Rest assured, I don't use binders or put anything else on the coins.  I also make sure that the gold is stored even more gently.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

First thing this morning while my hands were at the driest (the glove developed a hole in the finger, I'll have to find new cotton gloves - where can I get those?), I put both the Trikephalon and the Nomisma into soft flips.  The one thing I despise about saflips is that it's soooo hard to get coins out of them.

I'm glad you mentioned this.  The soft flip seems so much gentler on them.

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

13 hours ago, sand said:

I wouldn't put a trachy coin in a flip. I would be worried, that the pressure of the flip, would flatten the trachy, and perhaps cause the trachy to crack. Also, if the flip were in a page of flips in slots, and if you were to put other pages of flips, on top of the page with the trachy, then that could flatten and crack the trachy.

One solution, is to put the trachy, into a coin tray, and put a photo of the trachy, in a flip.

No worries. I put them in flips without issue.

This coin will literally bend in your hands its so thin (25mm, 0.7g roughly). Its been inside and outside of flips and hasn’t been broken or damaged. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by TheTrachyEnjoyer