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Little AE4s


Justin Lee
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I really like these little AE4s from the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Would love to see others that you've got... 

 

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Arcadius with the 3 rulers on reverse. 

 

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Dragging captives

 

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A fun mule with Aelia Flaccilla on obverse and a reverse for one of her sons. 

 

Edited by Justin Lee
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I love my little AE4s (especially the Victory dragging captive types). Only problem is they're a bit time-consuming & tough to photograph.

image.png.cca5a88e58da793b6c79f1dae6285073.png

 

Here's another Theodosius with just Victory on the reverse, no captive. I guess I've only got a video of this one (by any chance, does anyone recognize the dealer or collection where that tag came from at the end? if so, plz msg me, I'm curious):

It's easier to photograph them in great big piles:

image.jpeg.627da1c27fe9b94379c27b6f89825c27.jpeg

 

Here's an Arcadius like the very top OP coin:

image.jpeg.25bead80cff692317c3c31402de1ba1c.jpeg

 

Of course, I really love my tiny Greek silver:

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Edited by Curtis JJ
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This Theo II with the 'Three Little Emperors' reverse (that's him in the middle) is one of my favorite LRBs.

1814038672_TheodosiusII-3emperors.jpg.dd9bc4cb758d4494b1c9a78e58aa7304.jpg

 

Likewise this AE4 campgate of Magnus Maximus...

291296872_magnusmaximus400.jpg.b979c29dfd12ac1a93e4d016618cf6f2.jpg

Edited by zumbly
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Bronze coin (AE4) minted at Siscia during the reign of VALENTINIAN II between 379 - 383 A.D. Obv. D.N.VALENTINIANVS.IVN.P.F.AVG. Pearl-diad., dr. & cuir. bust right. Rev. VOT.V.MVLT.X. in wreath. RCS #4166. RICXI #29c.2 pg.152. DVM #51.

 

KED-320 OBV.jpg

KED-320 REV.jpg

Bronze coin (AE4) minted at SMKA = Cyzicus, Turkey during the reign of THEOSOSIUS I between 388 - 392 A.D. Obv. D.N.THEODOSIVS.P.F.AVG. pearl-diademed, draped & cuirassed bust r. Rev. SALVS.REIPVBLICAE. Victory advancing l., with r. hand carrying trophy over shoulder & dragging captive with l. RCS #4188. RICIX #26b pg.245. EF obv. Centered, rev. slightly off-centered, obv. Legend softly struck, smooth brown surfaces, sharp portrait.

 

KFD-311 OBV.jpg

KFD-311 REV.jpg

Edited by Jims,Coins
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46 minutes ago, Jims,Coins said:

Bronze coin (AE4) minted at SMKA = Cyzicus, Turkey during the reign of THEOSOSIUS I between 388 - 392 A.D. Obv. D.N.THEODOSIVS.P.F.AVG. pearl-diademed, draped & cuirassed bust r. Rev. SALVS.REIPVBLICAE. Victory advancing l., with r. hand carrying trophy over shoulder & dragging captive with l. RCS #4188. RICIX #26b pg.245. EF obv. Centered, rev. slightly off-centered, obv. Legend softly struck, smooth brown surfaces, sharp portrait.

Whoa, GREAT captive! That's one of the things I love about these. You can often find indications of the actual practical details and technologies of Roman slavery and prisoners of war. Such as, how did they actually bind them? What kind of manacles and collars and cordage did they use? How were the captives positioned?

Of course, you can't take all the coins literally or rely on any single coin too heavily, but collectively it gives a better picture. This captive appears to be on his knees, hands behind the back (as usual). That may be a binding around the waist and cords running vertically (slightly diagonally) over the torso, probably connecting the collar, the hands, and the waist restraint together. It's hard to distinguish, especially on small coins, between bindings and clothing (e.g., do we see coils of cord or just baggy trousers and tunics?), but all that above is based on the context of comparison with many other examples in all sizes and metals, as well as other forms of Roman artwork depicting captives (everything from terracotta oil lamps to marble friezes).

Edited by Curtis JJ
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15 hours ago, Justin Lee said:

I really like these little AE3s from the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Would love to see others that you've got... 

 

incollage_20210208_154145587.jpg

Arcadius with the 3 rulers on reverse. 

 

wp-1659751159898.jpg

Dragging captives

 

incollage_20220805_205030792.jpg

A fun mule with Aelia Flaccilla on obverse and a reverse for one of her sons. 

 

J.L., Nice group photos & great score on the mule ☺️.

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  • Justin Lee changed the title to Little AE4s
22 hours ago, Al Kowsky said:

difficult to handle & I lose track of them easily. To overcome this I get them slabbed or buy them slabbed

Yeah, that's a big problem even for putting in them in flips or capsules. With 2x2 plastic SAFLIP types, they can easily slide right out. A lot of my tinies I keep in groups, loose in boxes with cotton/felt/etc., or sealed in plastic bags or paper envelopes. I always keep a little count or inventory on the outside and double-check whenever I handle them.

Again, slightly off topic (tiny Greek AR not tiny Roman AE)... but I recently got a group (18 low grade fractions ex-Herbert Cahn (1915-2002) Collection, via CNG e-auction) that I wanted to keep separate. I've been having to really closely monitor the flips (I keep those flips all grouped together in a little plastic box), since a couple times already some have slipped out without my noticing.

I've posted a video (0:30s) elsewhere showing how I keep a Carian hemiobol in a plastic capsule with custom fitted foam gasket.

Here are 8 of those tiny Cahn Collection Greek archaic fractions (being a short clip, I like watching it on a loop on imgur, but they're my coins & fingers so I guess it's guaranteed that I would)

 

Edited by Curtis JJ
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Theodosius II AE3. Cyzicus, 406-408 AD. DN THEODO-SIVS PF AVG, pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right, star behind head / GLORI-A
ROMA-NORVM, the three emperors Arcadius, Theodosius II and Honorius standing facing, all holding spears, the two outermost also resting hand on
shields. Mintmark SMKA 

 

theodosius-II-3.jpg

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Curtis JJ said:

Yeah, that's a big problem even for putting in them in flips or capsules. With 2x2 plastic SAFLIP types, they can easily slide right out. A lot of my tinies I keep in groups, loose in boxes with cotton/felt/etc., or sealed in plastic bags or paper envelopes. I always keep a little count or inventory on the outside and double-check whenever I handle them.

Again, slightly off topic (tiny Greek AR not tiny Roman AE)... but I recently got a group (18 low grade fractions ex-Herbert Cahn (1915-2002) Collection, via CNG e-auction) that I wanted to keep separate. I've been having to really closely monitor the flips (I keep those flips all grouped together in a little plastic box), since a couple times already some have slipped out without my noticing.

I've posted a video (0:30s) elsewhere showing how I keep a Carian hemiobol in a plastic capsule with custom fitted foam gasket.

Here are 8 of those tiny Cahn Collection Greek archaic fractions:

 

 

Very nice group there! And nice job working the problem and find a way to keep them safe! 

--Edit-----

Something like this? 

SPLF 100 Pieces 30mm Coin Capsules and 5 Sizes (17/20/25/27/30mm) Protect Gasket Coin Holder Case with Plastic Storage Organizer Box for Coin Collection Supplies https://a.co/d/1OqYDjb

Edited by Justin Lee
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On 8/6/2022 at 5:48 PM, Justin Lee said:

Something like this?

Yup, exactly. Those work great for Roman AE4s. It's hard to find small capsules (my favorite are the 17, 18, 19, and 20mm ones -- best to get a variety and just pick the best fit for each coin). For a 10-15mm Roman AE you want a small capsule and then you have to cut the foam circle to fit each coin.

I've never had a Roman coin too small to fit (too big, yes), but with tiny Greek coins there's a certain point beyond which they're just too little. I've got some in the 3-5mm range, and they're just too small to fit in the foam and see both sides. For those I use a flip (clipped shut to avoid spillage) or a small box. Sometimes I even use the capsule like a box, so one side is visible, but I have to open it flip the coin & see there other side.

For small Roman coins, though, the capsules are perfect. 

Edited by Curtis JJ
Lol, my spell check turned best -> Bressett! "Been had..." How'd that happen?
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I love all of those coins in the OP, @Justin Lee, and I do mean ALL of them, including the big pile! 😄 Here are a few of my newer ones, in no particular order.

First, a Festival of Isis coin from the mid 4th century with Harpokrates on the reverse:

image.jpeg.fc53a9f1c3c798b1ae1cf3da2248c6e4.jpeg

These are cool for being blatantly Pagan types produced when the empire had become decidedly Christian. 12 mm, 1.00 g, 7 h; Rome mint. Obv: DEO SERAPIDI; Draped bust of Serapis to right, wearing modius. Rev: VOTA PVBLICA Harpocrates standing front, head to left, raising his right hand to his mouth and holding cornucopiae in his left. Alföldi, Festival, 129 and pl. III, 45-46. Vagi 3385.

17 mm is right on the cusp of AE3 vs. AE4, and this early 5th century coin of Arcadius is exactly 17mm.  It's neat seeing a facing bust on an AE coin rather than gold:

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^ Issued c. 402, 2.55g. RIC X 85-6.

Leo I, Constantinople, with the lion reverse:

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And the same thing (very rare) from just before the Alexandria mint was closed down:

image.jpeg.f86955a046f3181681a9637290b52336.jpeg

The "migration period" saw some ridiculously small ones, like the Ostrogothic coin that @seth77 posted.  Here's a Visigothic example from Seville:

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At 0.23g and 5mm, this coin just edges his out for tininess, we'd have to use the same scale to be sure! 😄 (Obv: SP, Rev: Cross on steps.)

To show a couple that have been in my collection for a while, here's a Eugenius from the Rome mint (at least it's a die match to a coin from a Roma auction they've ID'd as Rome mint):

image.jpeg.f11f7f50159ac5e58bad04508b394ab3.jpeg

And a cute little Arcadius from when he was just a babby:

image.jpeg.b43f30ef109d68dcac23d406c653d316.jpeg

And finally, my very newest AE4s, which I won in an auction today!  A perfectly centered Valentinian II from Cyzicus, and a 14mm and 1.12g falling horseman imitation:

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In the recent poll asking about which types of coins bore people, LRB's were often chosen.  I just don't get it!! 🧐😆

Great to see you active here at NumisForums BTW @Justin Lee!

Edited by Severus Alexander
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I used to collect these coins but when I made the decision to reduce the size of my collection I had to sell a lot of the LRB's Including this one 

Ae 4 of Arcadius Campgate reverse 384-388AD  Thessalonika Mint. RIC 62b3 THIS IS NO LONGET MY COINXarcadius1.JPG.9358933910e9b16fc154508395a63820.JPG

Of the coins in this series this had to be one of my favorites. Arcadius just looks soooo sad. This coin is one of those I  do miss.

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Odoacer, Kingdom of Italy
AE nummus
Obv: OD[O-VAC], bare-headed, draped, cuirassed bust right
Rev: Odoacer's monogram (letters ODOVA) within wreath
Mint: Ravenna
Date: 476-493 AD
Ref: RIC X 3502

A01DF02C-1907-4379-9227-953D7D82A6FA.thumb.jpeg.cb46f7a1aec55c1689d3a4d84ba8d6c0.jpeg
 

Thrasamund, Vandal Kingdom
AE nummus
Obv: D N RG TRSA, pearl-diademed, draped bust right
Rev: Victory advancing right, holding wreath, cross to right(?)
Mint: (North Africa, probably Carthage)
Date: 496-523 AD
Ref: MIB Vandals 16

1DC58EA9-7D1F-422E-8FA3-76B679964B30.thumb.jpeg.a140abe70b5715ac8fb669a57e2063d9.jpeg

Hilderic, Vandal Kingdom
AE nummus
Obv: HILD [REX], pearl-diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right
Rev: Cross potent within wreath, ring above
Mint: Carthage

Date: 523-530 AD)
Ref: BMC Vandals 9

983F3A37-CAE9-4A6D-AA91-6A722FF06499.thumb.jpeg.82dac69eace0d402ef9d06658fb5186f.jpeg

Gelimer, Vandal Kingdom
AE Nummus
Obv: GEIL-AMIR, pearl-diademed, draped bust right
Rev: Monogram of Gelimer within wreath
Mint: Carthage

Date: 530-533 AD
Ref: MEC 1, 28-30; BMC Vandals 4-6

E885E734-0CAD-4ED8-9B8F-64556CA8EB94.jpeg.ccde50082c22f23696a33d40a8c8593d.jpeg

Majorian, Western Roman Empire
AE nummus
Obv: D N IVL MAIOR[IANVS P F AVG], pearl-diademed, draped bust right
Rev: [VICTORI-A AVGGG], Victory advancing right, holding palm branch and trophy
Mint: Milan
Mintmark: [MD]
Date: 457-461 AD
Ref: RIC X 2642

2EEB578D-29E9-4E31-A29B-078EF7C5787C.jpeg.863fc94731fb47fcccc2287decefac32.jpeg
 

Libius Severus, Western Roman Empire
AE nummus
Obv: [D N LIBIVS SEVERVS P F AVG], pearl-diademed, draped bust right
Rev: Monogram of Ricimer within wreath
Mint: Rome
Date: 461-467 AD (Libius Severus reigned 461-465 AD)
Ref: RIC X 2715

5FF561BE-5394-4634-BD2D-C11FCB84E78B.jpeg.b304bbb4dacbb980aebd7821f8281e53.jpeg

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Some really nice examples of those tiny things all around folks

3ba6ac5daf2b4880b328e3f3cfbdde03.jpg

Theodosius, AE4 - Cyziqua mint, 2nd officina
DN THEODO SIVS P F AVG, draped and diademed bust of Theodosius right
SALVS REI PVBLICAE, Victory walking left, dragging captive. Christogram in field, SMKB at exergue
1.41 gr
Ref : Cohen #30, LRBC # 2569, Roman coins #4188v, RIC IX Cyzicus 26b

 

4d92861d77724c32b4b2247b67a76b14.jpg

Arcadius, AE4 - Heraclea mint, 1st officina, c. AD 383
DN ARCADIVS PF AVG. Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VOT / V within wreath, SMHA at exergue
1.27g, 14mm, 12h
Ref : RIC IX # 18b, LRBC II # 1964

 

Q

 

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8 hours ago, kapphnwn said:

I used to collect these coins but when I made the decision to reduce the size of my collection I had to sell a lot of the LRB's Including this one 

Ae 4 of Arcadius Campgate reverse 384-388AD  Thessalonika Mint. RIC 62b3 THIS IS NO LONGET MY COINXarcadius1.JPG.9358933910e9b16fc154508395a63820.JPG

Of the coins in this series this had to be one of my favorites. Arcadius just looks soooo sad. This coin is one of those I  do miss.

I'm sorry to have missed out on that one, but I was happy to have won this little Valentinian II, formerly from your collection.

572670896_109020LGValentinianIICampgate.jpg.d6519d0ab0cf195b63768472c167d6d0.jpg

VALENTINIAN II
Scarce. AE4. 0.79g, 12mm.
Thessalonica mint, AD 384-388. RIC IX 62a.2; LRBC 1864.
O: D N VALENTIN[IANVS P F AVG], pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right.
R: GLORIA REI-[PVB]L[I]CE, campgate with four layers, no doors and two turrets; A in left field, TES in exergue.
Ex Terence Cheesman (“Maple Leaf”) Collection

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5 hours ago, Qcumbor said:

Theodosius, AE4 - Cyziqua mint, 2nd officina

Another great example of a Theodosius Cyzicus captive! It can be hard to tell how the captive's clothing and "accessories" are any different from Victory's, but combined with other examples, this one gives me more confidence that what's being illustrated on the captive is a collar with two bindings running down the front of the torso (or some kind of harness) to a waist restraint. (You see it on @Jims,Coins example above and mine above in the first reply.) The hands are probably bound to the waist restraint in back. Not 100% sure yet if the legs are bound or have manacles, but on other types from other times and mints they appear to.

image.png.823861bd5bd7101c62edcba4cb92866a.png

Edited by Curtis JJ
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One more -- not sure anyone calls Byzantine AEs "AE4s" but this one definitely fits in the tradition of the late Roman AE4s since it's modeled on the "VOT X" in wreath style minima from the 4th-5th centuries.

I might do a separate post with this coin and others from my "Justinian Plague" Collection. It was struck in Regnal Year 14 (540/541 CE), about 6 years after Belisarius expelled the Vandals and reclaimed the territory for the Byzantine / E. Roman Empire. Year 14 of Justinian was also the year that the bubonic plague first hit Carthage and N. Africa. The plague more-or-less ended Justinian's dreams of reuniting the Roman Empire and reclaiming its former glory (despite having already taken N. Africa and the West from the Vandals and Goths).

This little 12mm nummus is quite the contrast from the ~40mm jumbo folles he was striking the same year:

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Edited by Curtis JJ
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Here some more ae3-ae4 coins:

Helena

IMG_0200_800_397.jpg.679366013fc2d78c49262aa962dc5208.jpg

Theodora

IMG_0206_800_417.jpg.c53e763544e189433155813a3bcc9f2f.jpg

Constantinopolis

IMG_0208_800_393.jpg.6974621838a0bc116cee59f0758bbafe.jpg

Urbs Roma

IMG_0211_800_392.jpg.06dcdf680388aa08514d320f9b284d9f.jpg

Dalmatius

IMG_0215_800_389.jpg.9bdc822227c3bc104917e457d089e14b.jpg

Hannibalianus

IMG_0217_800_372.jpg.69c93285849754426d733558b473c46c.jpg

Julianus II

IMG_0223_800_415.jpg.449dbad3d56c5214848f9db086ad6001.jpg

Marcianus

IMG_0225_800_390.jpg.a3578d5177b84964c46a5d4e49bc0922.jpg

Theodosius I

IMG_0246_800_389.jpg.af8694ae2e11fc4169e419f99c7d851c.jpg

Aelia Flacilla

IMG_0243_800_372.jpg.edb07915b167d81ae128da870225c715.jpg

Leo

IMG_0227_800_365.jpg.a0d236a7656e28ff99657d91f96c8627.jpg

Johannes

IMG_0233_800_391.jpg.a12168da4361121dd98b7c2413240993.jpg

Theodosius II

IMG_0229_800_391.jpg.34f6167bae30f46ae60f5d956ffa9473.jpg

Athalaric

IMG_0235_800_394.jpg.05bc5fc49e7c01899aafb8c691e26940.jpg

Gelimer

IMG_0237_800_411.jpg.ccc36955104a71040b8435c615dd82d6.jpg

Avitus

IMG_0219_800_382.jpg

Honorius

IMG_0249_800_395.jpg

I love the little 4 - 5 century coins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mc9
to much foto's
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