maridvnvm Posted April 30 · Member Share Posted April 30 (edited) I am in the process of going through the various photos I have taken on my barious trips to the British Museum over the last couple of years. I have one photo of a statue that has made me pause. Here is the British Museum description. "Marble portrait statue of the emperor Septimius Severus in military dress. He is shown with his characteristic forked beard and tight curled hair, and is wearing military dress. The statue is not carved fully in the round, but is flat and unfinished at the back, suggesting that it was part of an architectural design. ... Taken from the French at the Capitulation of Alexandria, 1801, and sent to the Museum by order of His Majesty[King George III]." Here is my image of the statue. My issue is that this screams to me of being Clodius Albinus and not Spetimius Severus. I have looked at the Capotiline example of Clodius Albinus (below - not my image) and this has reenforced my view. Have I gone barking mad? Edited April 30 by maridvnvm 10 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted April 30 · Patron Share Posted April 30 Not a crazy notion at all. Looks like Albinus to me, too. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted April 30 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted April 30 Nope. I'd say it's Albinus as well judging by the character of the cheek bones. Also does not look like the same man who appears in the Severus tondo. 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted April 30 · Supporter Share Posted April 30 59 minutes ago, maridvnvm said: Have I gone barking mad? They are usually quite open to queries, and it would be fantastic if you can give them better information. JD Hill heads up research still I think. Or here- bmresearch@britishmuseum.org 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted April 30 · Supporter Share Posted April 30 If it came from Alexandria, it is likely there would be a statue of Clodius Albinus there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted April 30 · Member Share Posted April 30 Yes, the BM is certainly less than foolproof in their attributions. There's this example among their Ife royal portrait sculpture, which is all dated (?) 14th-15th century. This corresponds to the range given by every overview of African art I've ever seen, going back to the 1970s. But this entry even makes reference to the archaeological context. https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/E_Af1939-34-1 Then there's this book, going back to 1989, citing comparable archaeological evidence, but this time dating the Ife sculpture (both brass and terra cotta) with this level of naturalism to c. 1000-1200. On the basis of, Oops, radiocarbon dating. (See esp. pp. 46 and 61.) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0945802048/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Bizarrely, the bibliography includes studies as recent as 2010. Although mention is made of previous attributions which were even more aggregious, I have to wonder if some people just couldn't handle the idea of this stuff being that much earlier than the Renaissance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted April 30 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted April 30 14 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: If it came from Alexandria, it is likely there would be a statue of Clodius Albinus there? I had the same thought, but I found this piece on Wiki: "Showing a disposition for military life, he entered the army when very young and served with distinction, especially in 175 during the rebellion of Avidius Cassius against Emperor Marcus Aurelius. His merit was acknowledged by the Emperor in two letters in which he calls Albinus an African, who resembled his countrymen but little, and who was praiseworthy for his military experience and the gravity of his character. " Cassius revolted in the East, hence the statue could have been present there a) because he was African and b) because he helped put down Cassius' revolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted April 30 · Member Share Posted April 30 I'm really fuzzy on this period. When Albinus was co-emperor with Septimius Severus, was Severus (at least) firmly in control of Egypt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maridvnvm Posted April 30 · Member Author Share Posted April 30 Septimius Severus minted coins of Albinus in Alexandria. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maridvnvm Posted April 30 · Member Author Share Posted April 30 I have sent a query off to the BM anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Posted April 30 · Member Share Posted April 30 Findspot Found/Acquired: Alexandria (Egypt) Africa: Egypt: Iskandariya, el- (Governorate): Alexandria (Egypt) Curator's comments Published: Ein Gott 215, no. 43, p. 52. Bibliographic references Sculpture / Catalogue of Greek Sculpture in the British Museum (1944) Fluck et al. 2015 / Egypt: Faith after the Pharaohs (p.50) Interesting fact: In 1992, The bulk of the chewing gum (vandalism) was removed with a scalpel, the residual was removed with Butanone MEK on cotton wool swabs... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrefn Posted April 30 · Supporter Share Posted April 30 I am voting for Albinus, also. I hope this does not make me an Albigensian. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broucheion Posted May 1 · Member Share Posted May 1 (edited) 12 hours ago, John Conduitt said: If it came from Alexandria, it is likely there would be a statue of Clodius Albinus there? Hi All, My Alexandrian Clodius Albinus is here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/clodius-and-victory-s-as-emperor.399316/#post-8513199 - Broucheion Edited May 1 by Broucheion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted May 1 · Member Share Posted May 1 Even before seeing the text, I also voted Albinus. Albinus was Caesar, after all. Did Caesars also have statues? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougsmit Posted May 2 · Member Share Posted May 2 Yes to Albinus. During the time when Alexandria was most active making coins, neither had the three prong beard which I can't say is present here anyway. I do have a few of the Alexandrian denarii which are hardly rare but more scarce than those of Septimius. I alway found it interesting how differently they ovberse legends were split. It has no place here but I am not inclined to pass up any opportunity to post the twin portrait SS/CA even if it is Pautalia rather than Alexandria. Albinus was well known and popular enough that Septimius saw fit to make him Caesar and not fight him until the Pescennius Niger situation had been resolved. Pautalia also issued much more common coins for Albinus alone. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted May 3 · Member Share Posted May 3 Very interesting @maridvnvm For what it's worth, I think it looks more like Albinus as well. A lesser-known portrait of him can be found at the Indiana University Museum of Art (they have a fantastic pair of Septimius Severus and Julia Domna as well). Last time I was there I took photos, but Albinus came out blurry. My post on these is here: The IU Art Museum wouldn't let me copy the photo from their collection of Albinus, but here's a link - he looks a lot like the OP, I think. https://artmuseum.indiana.edu/collections-online/browse/object.php?number=62.99 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinmaster Posted May 3 · Member Share Posted May 3 Why oh why are these Albinus denarii almost all damaged/unreadable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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