Why would dealer charge 50 Euros more for same coin on MA-Shops than on VCoins?

[DonnaML]

I just bought a coin from a German dealer on VCoins for 200 Euros. The same dealer was charging 250 Euros on MA-Shops for the same coin. The shipping charges were the same on the two platforms. So I made the obvious choice of which platform to use to make the purchase.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any possible reason for the different prices? Are the MA-Shops charges to dealers that much higher than what VCoins charges them? If so, one would expect to see this kind of retail price differential all the time. But I  haven't noticed any such substantial differences in the past in this situation.

 

[John Conduitt]

It might just be that they accidentally listed it higher. EUR50 on a EUR200 coin is too much for any sort of charging structure difference. Maybe the next coin on the list was EUR250, or they were in two minds about whether to go high or low. Presumably, they know the coin isn't EUR50 or EUR5000 so either price didn't seem wrong.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Perhaps there was a sale, and they didn't update it on one platform?  Marc B's coins are often cheaper on his own website, probably due to fees on vcoins, etc.

[Phil Anthos]

Most dealers charge less on their own sites.

[CPK]

I've noticed that too. It seems that if there is a price difference between the two platforms, MA-Shops is always slightly higher. My guess is that the cost of listing on MA-Shops must be a bit higher and the dealer is passing that extra cost along to the customer. But I could be wrong.

[ewomack]

A recent coin that I purchased was considerably less expensive on the dealer's site than on VCoins (I don't think I ever searched MAShops for it). Though I do like buying on VCoins, in this instance the price difference almost necessitated buying it directly from the dealer. As others have already said, fees probably differ between sites and could account for the price difference.

[Phil Anthos]

I love Vcoins and the majority of my purchases are from there. But if I see a coin there that I want I will often check that dealer's site first. Sometimes the difference is only enough to cover postage, but what the hell.  😎

~ Peter 

[John Conduitt]

48 minutes ago, Phil Anthos said:

I love Vcoins and the majority of my purchases are from there. But if I see a coin there that I want I will often check that dealer's site first. Sometimes the difference is only enough to cover postage, but what the hell.  😎

~ Peter 

I'm often disappointed to find dealers don't price cheaper on their websites. Some even link to VCoins from their websites.

Here's a random sample (well, random as much as they had to be on both sites):

Aeternitas: Maximian, EUR145 both on VCoins  and MAShops - website sends you to VCoins.
Agora Numismatik: Maximian, EUR2350 on VCoins and MAShops but EUR2250 on their website.
Ars Wien: Maxentius, EUR95 on VCoins, EUR115 on MAShops. Doesn't seem to be on their website.
Ars Wien: Galerius, EUR115 on VCoins, EUR85 on MAShops, EUR95 on their website.
YOTHR: Anastasius, EUR1099 on VCoins and MAShops. Sends you to MAShops.

So mostly they are the same. With Ars Wien, you can get one coin cheaper on VCoins than MAShops, but another is more expensive on VCoins. The latter is even cheaper on MAShops than on their website and even at that low price you can 'make an offer'.

This 'make an offer' option (on MAShops but not VCoins) might cause some price differences. If you want EUR500 for a coin, and there is this option, you might increase it to EUR550 so people get a deal and you still get your price.

But it seems to me many price differences are just slack inventory management rather than deliberate, although generally their own websites are cheaper.

Edited April 20 by John Conduitt

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

I remember seeing the same coin available on Vcoins, MAShops…and EBay with three different prices… And one little tip for anyone who wants to buy on one of these platforms : you can always NEGOTIATE the price, and sometimes even have the free shipping. Nothing to lose to try it. 💰

[DonnaML]

2 hours ago, ewomack said:

As others have already said, fees probably differ between sites and could account for the price difference.

50 Euros higher on a single 200 Euro coin seems like an awful lot to be entirely attributable to a fee differential, though.

[Prieure de Sion]

12 hours ago, DonnaML said:

I just bought a coin from a German dealer on VCoins for 200 Euros. The same dealer was charging 250 Euros on MA-Shops for the same coin. The shipping charges were the same on the two platforms. So I made the obvious choice of which platform to use to make the purchase.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any possible reason for the different prices? Are the MA-Shops charges to dealers that much higher than what VCoins charges them? If so, one would expect to see this kind of retail price differential all the time. But I  haven't noticed any such substantial differences in the past in this situation.

 

Hello Donna, as a German VCoins and MA-Shop Dealer I can explain.

1. the provision at MA-Shop is higher to pay 

2. as a German dealer we must pay 19% custom tax for the provision invoice to the German authorities 

3. at VCoins I have 99% customers outside EU - so I don’t must pay „Differenzsteuer“ on my winning Marge. At my MA-Shop I have 99% EU customers who buys - and I must pay 19% called „Differenzsteuer“ for winning Marge. 
 

So… a) higher Provision b) 19% tax at the provision and c) in 99% of buys 19% Differenzsteuer when EU customers will place a order. 

Yes - you are not a EU Customer - but I don’t know that, when I place the offer at the MA-Shop … so it’s a risk don’t calculate that. 

So yes, for a EU Dealer it’s much more expensive to sell at MA-Shop instead of VCoins. And it’s not only the higher provision - the matter was the two custom taxes in our EU/Germany authorities.

I have the same prices at VCoins and MA-Shop, but it’s stupid from me. That’s, because my business is more a hobby than my work I must pay my life. If this was my main job like other dealers - I must make two prices also. 

[Prieure de Sion]

VCoins selling 
+ Provision

MA-Shop selling
+ (higher) Provision
+ 19% tax at (higher) Provision
+ 19% Differenzsteuer for winning Marge 
+ Winning Tax for Shipping costs

I complete forget - here in Germany (I am not sure it was at all EU country’s the same) the shipping cost was part of the winning Marge! So when I take 20 Euro from you to shipping to USA I musst add this 20 Euro to my winning at this transaction. And so pay more tax for the German custom authorities.

[Prieure de Sion]

And at last - sorry I am writing at my handy - it was possible the dealer forget change prices at booth shops. It’s also possible he change the prices at VCoins for some coins - want change the prices at MA Shop and forget 1-2 coins.

I do the same … I make some coins cheaper, but forget one coin at MA Shop. So one coin was at MA Shop expensively that at my VCoins shop. I see the error later and edit the price. But if you see it - you want think, why the different prices 🙂 

[John Conduitt]

2 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

VCoins selling 
+ Provision

MA-Shop selling
+ (higher) Provision
+ 19% tax at (higher) Provision
+ 19% Differenzsteuer for winning Marge 
+ Winning Tax for Shipping costs

I complete forget - here in Germany (I am not sure it was at all EU country’s the same) the shipping cost was part of the winning Marge! So when I take 20 Euro from you to shipping to USA I musst add this 20 Euro to my winning at this transaction. And so pay more tax for the German custom authorities.

Ok so it could be quite a difference depending on where the dealer or the customer comes from. Or not much different at all.

Why don’t you have to pay the 19% provision tax on VCoins given you are still German when selling there? Similarly the 19% differential tax if the VCoins customer is German? 

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

2 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Ok so it could be quite a difference depending on where the dealer or the customer comes from. Or not much different at all.

Why don’t you have to pay the 19% provision tax on VCoins given you are still German when selling there? Similarly the 19% differential tax if the VCoins customer is German? 

Maybe because MA shops is based in Germany.

[Dwarf]

For a dealer based in Germany the one and only difference between MA-shops and VCoins is a difference in provision charged by the owner(s) of the shop.

Regards
Klaus

 

[seth77]

Except for Andre Cichos, everyone else I have bought from charges more on MA than VC or eBay for the same material.

[Prieure de Sion]

5 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Ok so it could be quite a difference depending on where the dealer or the customer comes from.

Yes... if the customer comes from Germany or EU - i must pay for my win a tax called "Differenzssteuer" of 19%. But i dont know before - when i place a coin - was the next buyer a customer inside EU or outside EU. As i said - the different was, that i have at Vcoins 99% customers outside EU and at MA-Shop 99% customers inside EU. So the "risk" for me, that a EU customer buy at MA-Shop was higher - and then i must calculate the 19% "Differenzsteuer" at my winning marge. 

 

5 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Why don’t you have to pay the 19% provision tax on VCoins given you are still German when selling there? Similarly the 19% differential tax if the VCoins customer is German? 

 

2 hours ago, Dwarf said:

For a dealer based in Germany the one and only difference between MA-shops and VCoins is a difference in provision charged by the owner(s) of the shop.

And thats not true Klaus!

MA-Shop is a company based in Germany - and when you get the provision invoice - you get the provision amount plus the German 19% tax (Mehrwertsteuer)!
Netto Provision + 19% Tax = Brutto Provision. 

VCoins is a US Company and you get the invoice without adding 19% tax! So at Vcoins i pay only the provision without any adding taxes.
Netto Provision = Brutto Provision.

[Phil Anthos]

24 minutes ago, seth77 said:

Except for Andre Cichos, everyone else I have bought from charges more on MA than VC or eBay for the same material.

Andre has always been pretty cool.

 

[seth77]

3 minutes ago, Phil Anthos said:

Andre has always been pretty cool.

 

No doubt. He once sent me an order before I even paid and I had to actually do detective work and get the MA team involved to get the payment details and eventually pay the man.

[seth77]

11 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Yes... if the customer comes from Germany or EU - i must pay for my win a tax called "Differenzssteuer" of 19%. But i dont know before - when i place a coin - was the next buyer a customer inside EU or outside EU. As i said - the different was, that i have at Vcoins 99% customers outside EU and at MA-Shop 99% customers inside EU. So the "risk" for me, that a EU customer buy at MA-Shop was higher - and then i must calculate the 19% "Differenzsteuer" at my winning marge. 

 

 

And thats not true Klaus!

MA-Shop is a company based in Germany - and when you get the provision invoice - you get the provision amount plus the German 19% tax (Mehrwertsteuer)!
Netto Provision + 19% Tax = Brutto Provision. 

VCoins is a US Company and you get the invoice without adding 19% tax! So at Vcoins i pay only the provision without any adding taxes.
Netto Provision = Brutto Provision.

This is very evocative of the reasons why the EU is lagging behind the US in terms of business growth: it seems way easier to do business in the US than in the EU. And also cheaper.

[John Conduitt]

It's an interesting view into the psyche of the Germans. Even though this is the internet and we can buy and sell anywhere we like, they choose the platform that costs more and means they have to pay more tax. It's puzzling why MAShops doesn't base itself in Liechtenstein or somewhere, for all it matters to the users.

It is also a bit odd that Texas doesn't charge anything at all on the VCoins fee or on the transaction. Whenever I buy anything from the US, there always seems to be tax to pay.

[Phil Anthos]

Some states have a sales tax. Here in Oregon we don't, which is very cool.

~ Peter 

[Prieure de Sion]

2 hours ago, seth77 said:

This is very evocative of the reasons why the EU is lagging behind the US in terms of business growth: it seems way easier to do business in the US than in the EU. And also cheaper.

That’s true.

I pay 7% import tax, when the coin comes from outside EU. And when a EU costumer will buy the coin - I must pay 19% tax of the winning Marge. And MA-Shop take a provision from me (and must add at the amount 19% tax). 

And at the and of the year I must make my business year balance - and must pay of my complete year profit  14% to 42% tax (Depending on the amount of the profit). 

So at the end - if you make 50€ profit at a 250€ coin:

Provision with tax:
- around 15€

19% Differenzsteuer from your profit
- 8 Euro

= 27€ 

And from this 27€ profit - at the end of the year (depending on annual profit) you must calculate 14% to 42% business tax. Lets make a example of 30% from your profit - so it was around 8€ … also you have at the end 19€ profit from your beginning 50€ profit. Welcome in German tax wonderland.

So yes - if you ask me - yes I prefer to sell to a USA customer with VCoins. Simply because 1-2 taxes are then eliminated for me. That’s the true. 

[DonnaML]

The dealer from which I made the purchase is actually located in Austria rather than Germany. I imagine that similar economic reasons explain the VCoins vs. MA-Shops price differential for a dealer in Austria. I saw the MA-Shops listing first, so it was fortunate that I happened to check the listing on VCoins before making the purchase. I don't even remember exactly why I did so -- I certainly wasn't expecting to see a price for the same coin that was 50 Euros lower.

But, as it turned out, the whole issue was academic in this case: the next day, I exercised my 14-day right to cancel the order, after I realized that I had stupidly forgotten that I already had a very similar type for the same Emperor. Still, the frequent existence of a price differential between the two platforms is useful information to have for the future. I'm surprised that I never noticed it before. Not every dealer, of course, sells on both platforms. It's probably a minority that does so.