Here's an eastern owl that sold for pretty big bucks at CNG's Electronic Auction 558

[robinjojo]

This coin hammered at $1,600, plus a 20% buyer's fee, for a total of $1,920.  The estimate for the lot, typically "low ball" was $250. It is described as unlisted, which is very likely true, but I have seen many other imitative coins that don't easily fit into cataloged types.

https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-D0YHSQ/uncertain-east-mid-late-4th-century-bc-ar-tetradrachm-20mm-1308-g-10h-imitating-athens-near-vf

The fabric of the coin looks like one of those owls attributed to Mesopotamia that have recently appeared on the market, with a low weight of 13.08 grams (shekel weight).  However, it could have originated elsewhere in that eastern region.

Here's one of the owls currently on the market attributed to Mesopotamia (Mazakes).  Note that his name, in Aramaic, is not present; instead there is the normal AΘE to the right.

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/ancient_artifacts__treasures/4/product/mazakes_satrap_of_mesopotamia__ar_tetradrachm_imitating_athens__athena__owl/2029855/Default.aspx

Here's an eastern owl, with "find" patina, that I acquired in 2016 that has a weight 13.8 grams, not as light as the CNG coin, but definitely in the shekel weight range, quite a wide one depending on local standards and period.

Possibly Philistia or Phoenicia, imitating Athens, tetradrachm, late 5th to mid 4th century.

13.8 grams

 

Edited March 20 by robinjojo

[KenDorney]

Thats a pretty insane price.  Some of these have hammered for a couple hundred last year, but to be fair others sold for similar prices.  I wonder where the market is going for ancients these days.

[kirispupis]

Wow! I noticed it this morning when it still had a lowball bid. I debated going for it but then felt it didn't fit my collection criteria enough.

Looks like whether I had bid or not the result would have been the same. 🙂 

[robinjojo]

This could be a situation where at least two highly specialized collectors of these coins got into a bidding war.  I've been collecting imitation owls for the past several years, but I just don't have the means, or desire, to engage is such activity.  Generally speaking almost all of my imitative owls are from the retail market, not auctions.

[robinjojo]

8 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

Wow! I noticed it this morning when it still had a lowball bid. I debated going for it but then felt it didn't fit my collection criteria enough.

Looks like whether I had bid or not the result would have been the same. 🙂 

Yup, definitely a blowout!  My bid of $190 was clearly an act of futility in retrospect.

Edited March 20 by robinjojo

[kirispupis]

4 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

Yup, definitely a blowout!

In general I've seen more coins blow up on CNG than elsewhere. Pretty much when there is something rare and I want it, there's now little chance I'll win even with a strong bid. On other sites I still have a chance.

[robinjojo]

8 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

In general I've seen more coins blow up on CNG than elsewhere. Pretty much when there is something rare and I want it, there's now little chance I'll win even with a strong bid. On other sites I still have a chance.

I have found it increasingly difficult to find "buys" through auctions. It's a combination of fees (increasing) and increasing cash flowing into these venues that takes the fun out of them.  It seems nowadays that the bidder with the biggest shovel and largest pile of money will prevail - time to return to bottom feeding, such as it is.

Sometimes something interesting shows up on eBay, but that is "caveat emptor" land.  Sometimes after sale or remainder lots offer some opportunity, depending on one's area(s) of interest.

Have you seen the latest Aaron Berk podcast?  That's number 42.  He discusses the coinage of Lycia and mentions that this is an area that offers an opportunity to collect at an "affordable" level, but I must say the prices realized (what I could see) generally seem high.  The coinage is quite interesting, though.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Wow, I'm happy with the $260 I paid for my 'Egyptian' owl.  I'm also happy that I avoid auctions.

[NewStyleKing]

I just don't geddit!  An unknown coin from an unknown findspot from an unknown area from an unknown ancient society that copied another well known coin type of the mid sort of 4th century!  Almost everything about it is speculation, which is likely to stay that way! There is nothing to learn from it...its in isolation even the only bit of writing is a lie! And that's so banal. Might be knocked out by a local blacksmith not an official imitative mint of some sort! It seems the coin weight can be anything you want it to be, what's the connection between 13.08 gm and 16.9 gm? !! 

Other than ownership, I just don't geddit! And it just aint purty but some cant say no!

Edited March 21 by NewStyleKing

[Rand]

17 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

An unknown coin from an unknown findspot from an unknown area from an unknown ancient society

My assumption: the winner and the underbidder were not bidding randomly and had a reason to target the coin.

My speculation: Even though this specific coin lacks the mentioned attributes, specialist collectors may be aware of similar examples and their relation to find spots, likely minting authority, and events surrounding minting these coins. The coin may be a valuable ‘linkage example’, helping reconstruct old stories.

My wish: To know the reasons and the story.

[NewStyleKing]

@Rand My wish: To know the reasons and the story.

 

I guess and hope if someone's done the work and are confident of it that they have published it somewhere and the bidders are sometime willing to share their insights!. That is how numismatics advances, not by secretly squirreling info away like a.....self satisfied squirrel! We all advance on the shoulders of others, there are people who don't reciprocate and live in their own private world as there are thieves and rogues and vagabonds, shysters everywhere.

All my sources are public and my crazy writings are also!

[Rand]

11 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

That is how numismatics advances, not by secretly squirreling info away

I fully agree, and advances in scholarship are indeed on the minds of many specialist collectors. Still, getting evidence from a hypothesis may take a lot of time. More than one coin is needed, and it could be years before another surfaces. Firing away publications of hypotheses and speculations is one way of knowledge sharing, but some collectors may seek a more conclusive stage. It is for them to decide. 

 

[robinjojo]

I agree.  The problem with these coins is that they tend to come from conflict zones, so any possible chance of location, hoard size, composition, etc. is virtually impossible.  This was very problematic even in the best of times in the Middle East.  There is evidence from studied hoards, such as the Syria hoard o f1989 and the Iraq hoard of 1973 that points to multiple sources for these imitations, including official, such as the pharaonic owls issued by an apparently unnamed pharaoh to pay Greek mercenaries fighting the Persians. 

There are others, more localized and probably a mix of official and private origins.  The weights of the imitation owls span a wide range, but I think in a region where coins of Attic, Phoenician and shekel weight circulated in a great mix, this would be a logical outcome.  I imagine that there would be a great incentive for a local authority to require the turning in of Attic weight owls, melt them and issue imitations at the shekel weight and pocket the profits.  This actually happened almost 1,900 years later in Potosi, Bolivia under Philip IV of Spain, but in that case the method of fraud by the assayers and mint officials was debasement.

Edited March 21 by robinjojo