Wannabe collector asking for advice

[Typhon]

Hello all,

I bought my first ancient coin when I was around 14 (a bronze of Claudius II). I have had a interest for the ancient world for as long as I can remember, and I was amazed that you can actually buy antiques that old. Now, about 20 years later I still haven't bought my second coin. Can't say that I've spent every waking moment thinking about it, but I do want to start a collection and have read multiple books and spent many hours browsing fixed price lists. Almost turning into a collector of numismatic literature. Therefore, I ask for advice and feedback from you experienced collectors.

In general, I'm attracted to the historical context of coins. And would like to focus on a specific mint or small region. I prefer the greek world, but Roman Republican coinage I also find quite interesting, particularly the reverse types. I've been looking at Provincial coinage, like Alexandria or Tarsus, but am not quite hooked. Greek silver is amazing, but most is out of my budget and there is not much type variety in coins from most cities. What I'm not is an "album" collector, and have no interest in trying to get coinage of all Roman emperors, etc. (although the Hellenistic portraits are very attractive).

This is where I turn to you for advice on where to look, especially to more niche areas that I might have missed only reading general literature. I know that I'll want to build my collection slowly, and would like to be able to afford good pieces for the series as I don't want buy something I might not like in 10 years. My absolute maximum budget per coin would be around €1000 including any fees, but lower would be preferable.

I hope that all of this makes sense, and would love to be proven wrong on any of my assumptions.

[kirispupis]

Welcome to the forums! Your budget will definitely allow you to build a great collection and the vast majority of my coins are within the same max.

Personally, the way I started was by picking up coins in different areas I liked. I was interested both in the time of Alexander the Great and the Roman emperors. I quickly limited that to Alexander the Great and focused on individual people, then branched out to cities. The one constant I've seen from collectors is that few have a very strong idea where they want to focus when they start.

My advice is to make a list of say ten or so coins that really interest you. Research those coins to understand the individual types and what condition you can expect to find for what budget. Sites like ACSearch and CoinArchives are great for seeing the current prices. VCoins is a great site if you're not confident enough to contend at auction, and sometimes coins will be cheaper there than at auction.

Once you find an example you feel is reasonable, grab it. Over time, you'll refine your tastes to a specific area.

The other thing is to keep reading. I also collect for historical context and am constantly devouring books about the Greek and Roman worlds. With each book I learn about new coins (even though I'm reading history and not numismatic books) and add a few more to my list...

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

My first coin was Gordian III I bought at age 11 with a MARTEM PROPVGNATOREM reverse struck for the onset of the Persian war. It was the last time in Roman history that the temple of Janus was opened as a positive augur for the campaign, which did not end well. Took me a awhile to figure out what MARTEM PROPVGNATOREM meant especially in those days before the Internet when Latin resources were scarce.

I wish you the best of luck and with that budget you can assemble a high-quality collection and perhaps acquire some gold pieces as well, especially Byzantine solidi if you want to go that far chronologically. 

[sand]

Hello @Typhon. Welcome to Nvmis Forvms.

I agree with @kirispupis, that Vcoins is a good place to buy ancient coins. Vcoins is also a good place, to buy medieval coins, and modern coins. You can look at what Vcoins has. It seems to me, that browsing Vcoins, is a good way, to find out, what's out there :   https://www.vcoins.com/en/Default.aspx 

I also agree, that ACsearch is a good place, to search for coins from previous auctions, based on key words :   https://www.acsearch.info/ 

Many ancient coins, and medieval coins, can be had, for less than $100. I've been collecting ancient coins, and medieval coins, for 5 years. I've made some mistakes. I've bought a few fake coins by accident. I've bought some coins, and then later I found better examples of those coins, and then I bought the better examples, a process we like to call "upgrading". I've occasionally overpaid for coins. Mistakes happen.

Over the past 5 years, I've found many new areas, and interesting niche areas. Ancient Greek electrum coins as early as 650 BC. Ancient coins of the middle east. Ancient Elymais. Byzantine coins. Ancient Chinese coins. Medieval Chinese coins. Medieval Vietnamese coins. Ancient coins of India. Ancient Judaean coins. Crusader coins. Spanish colonial coins minted in the New World, such as pieces of eight. Roman Republic bronze coins. Coins of the late Roman Empire. Early medieval coins. Barbarian coins minted during the late Roman Empire and after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Ancient Celtic coins, from when the Celts lived all over Europe, before the time of Julius Caesar. And many more.

And, if you hang around Nvmis Forvms, you will learn a lot.

Edited March 17 by sand

[Roman Collector]

Welcome, @Typhon It sounds like you might be interested in collecting a theme, such as animals, architectural types, a specific deity (such as Venus or Zeus), mythological creatures, and so on. Perhaps there's a specific historical figure you're interested in, such as Elagabalus or Nero. I concur with others who have suggested looking around at V Coins to see which coins "speak" to you. You don't have to decide on a collection focus right away. It may take a dozen purchases before your interests become clear. 

[Deinomenid]

On the specifics of your post, you say Greek and with historical context. The later the better in general then. While Greek cities were indeed like frogs round the Mediterranean pond from an early date, if you go early (realistically 550BC at the earliest) there’s not a lot of clear history. Your context is going to rapidly descend (ascend?) into archeology, inference, interpretation of later texts etc. And for the next 100 years or so, very broadly, your point of maximum gravity historically is going to be Athen, its foreign ventures and how other poleis interacted with it, with added potted histories of those places. Lots and lots of Thucydides and Herodotus with a bit of Xenophon! From then and onwards the historical context gets way easier and broader. 
 

I imagine for the Roman Republic (the other area you mention) these are far smaller issues as the level and depth of knowledge appears to be so much the greater . But I don’t do modern history, so am not sure 😀

 

Edited March 17 by Deinomenid
Typo

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

And if you go Roman, get Sear's Roman Coins and their Values.  I believe that Spink has every one but volume 4 available in pdf, for around 35 dollars each.  It's old (1990's), but David Van Meter's book is an excellent beginner's reference, around $35 at forum.  There's also Sear's Imperator's book (I forget the exact title), only available in paper.

And ERIC is available for free download. http://www.dirtyoldbooks.com/eric.html

I'd stick with vcoins.  Some dealers are better than others, but I have few terrible experiences.

Youtube: the channel Classical Numismatics is good.  I'd really recommend that you check that out.

Aaron Berk, a famous dealer, also has an ancients podcast.

History podcasts are also a good way to stoke interest.  There's Totalus Rankium, the History of Byzantium, etc.

[ewomack]

Hello @Typhon, you've taken the path that a lot of people would likely recommend. Instead of just jumping in and buying coins that seem interesting to you, you've first done a lot of reading, researching, and thinking about your interests. That is the best way to begin. Just jumping in and buying coins with no knowledge easily leads to buying problem coins or, as you suggested, buying coins that won't interest you a year after you bought them. I sadly speak from experience on this one. Early on, I rushed into too many purchases, hoarded more than collected, and ended up regretting the time and money spent on many of those hastily acquired coins.

As already said, your maximum budget will allow you to buy very nice coins. My budget is intentionally set quite a bit lower (I have never spent €1000 (or roughly US $1,089.50 at this moment) for a single coin (excepting occasional gold purchases) for the entire time that I've collected coins, and I've found plenty to enjoy. It's a highly personal hobby and you may find something interesting that no one else finds interesting. Having spent a fair amount of time in the Byzantine realm over the past two years, I can attest to this. I've found that the coins I enjoy the most have some personal connection for me via history, my reading, or they give me that "this is a small taste of what it was like to live back in [enter date]" feeling. I don't seek out rarities. I don't have a "bucket list." I fervently avoid impulse buying, so I stay away from auctions. I just buy what appeals to me or what "speaks to me." Sometimes I'm not sure exactly why I like a particular coin, but I know it's something I'll likely continue to appreciate through the years. This approach has served me well in the past decade or so. Others obviously approach things differently.

As far as buying coins, VCoins has already been mentioned. I also browse MAShops quite often as well.

Ultimately, don't rush into it. It sounds like you don't need that advice, but I wish someone had told me that earlier in time. I rushed, hoarded, and largely regretted.

(the replies are pouring in as I type this, so there may be some overlap here with those posts)

[Heliodromus]

If you don't want to be an album/set collector, then roman provincial coinage might appeal since there was a lot of city-to-city variety. You couldn't even collect them all if you tried, although that's actually also true  of most specialist collecting areas (incl. "one of every emperor") - you may be able to collect 90% of them, but the other 10% will be impossible. Part of the fun of collecting ancients is that no-one even knows what a "full set" consists of in many areas, since there are discoveries of new types still happening even today. As a specialist collector it's quite possible to come across coins that are not known.

 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I love the early 3rd century Balkan provincials.  Although one generally won't find coins much larger than 30mm, the patinas can be fantastic.

 

[Qcumbor]

Welcome to the boards !

I've been a coin collector for 50 years now, and beyond the "one per ruler" classical way of collecting, every single sub set (themed collection, niche, or whatever you call them) has litterally chosen me more than I've chosen it : some circumstances, the purchase of a specific coin, a growing interest for some historical fact/period, drove me into a new area of collecting. I've never purposely, beforehand, decided which era to collect. 

Anyway you are entering a fabulous world. Have fun !

Q

[CPK]

4 hours ago, Roman Collector said:

Welcome, @Typhon It sounds like you might be interested in collecting a theme, such as animals, architectural types, a specific deity (such as Venus or Zeus), mythological creatures, and so on. Perhaps there's a specific historical figure you're interested in, such as Elagabalus or Nero. I concur with others who have suggested looking around at V Coins to see which coins "speak" to you. You don't have to decide on a collection focus right away. It may take a dozen purchases before your interests become clear. 

I could not agree more!

And: welcome to the Forum, @Typhon!

Edited March 17 by CPK

[Typhon]

Thank you all so much for your insights and the warm welcome.

Like some of you have mentioned: yes, I'll try to research so that I really know what I'm buying. My problem currently is probably that researching the whole field is unfeasible, and I have a hard time choosing something to start with. I know that I'll find pretty much anything interesting as long as there is some historical connection to read up on.

One type I've been wanting to own is a lifetime issue of Alexander, which could be a good place to start since it's general enough and it's something I know I won't regret buying. Roman provincials I find rather charming, and I like the diversity, but it seems quite hard to get into except for Alexandrian coinage. That fact that there are still uncatalogued types is also quite exciting.

To summarise: by knowing myself I know that I'll want to specialise eventually, but perhaps the way to get there is to start general and see where research leads.

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Typhon said:

Thank you all so much for your insights and the warm welcome.

Like some of you have mentioned: yes, I'll try to research so that I really know what I'm buying. My problem currently is probably that researching the whole field is unfeasible, and I have a hard time choosing something to start with. I know that I'll find pretty much anything interesting as long as there is some historical connection to read up on.

One type I've been wanting to own is a lifetime issue of Alexander, which could be a good place to start since it's general enough and it's something I know I won't regret buying. Roman provincials I find rather charming, and I like the diversity, but it seems quite hard to get into except for Alexandrian coinage. That fact that there are still uncatalogued types is also quite exciting.

To summarise: by knowing myself I know that I'll want to specialise eventually, but perhaps the way to get there is to start general and see where research leads.

Yes you probably need to just get on and buy a few things. There doesn't seem much chance of you rushing it. You can't guarantee you'll want anything you buy now in a decade's time, but you can always sell anything you don't want on eBay, or whatever we're using then.

[Hrefn]

It is commonly said one should buy the book before the coin, and there is good reason to do so.  But, if you are not sure about the area you will select in which to specialize, you really cannot follow this advice.   Many numismatic references are expensive, and the subsections of the numismatic universe they reference can be rather narrow.  You may find yourself owning some expensive books which do not correspond well to the collecting areas you eventually select.  

Buying the coin before the book can be a very rewarding strategy.  A new acquisition will inspire you to investigate the history behind the coin, the city or tribe, earlier and later issues of similar coinage.  You may find the coin, and the information you learn about the circumstances of its striking,  piques your interest in acquiring similar pieces.  Or coins of that tribe/city state/empire’s opponents.  Or imitations of your coin struck by different peoples or at different times.  

There is nothing wrong with having a core collection, with a smattering of unrelated coins.  In my own collection, about 60% of the space in my trays is occupied by coins in my primary area of concentration.   The remainder is comprised of coins which are either peripherally related, or even completely unrelated.  Some of these coins are solitary examples.  My avatar is my only Celtic gold coin, for example.  I have a single Parthian drachm, a single Eraviscan denarius, 3 Roman Republic denarii, one Mughal mohur, one Kushan gold stater, and one silver stater from Gortyna.  It is unlikely that I will be adding to my collection in any of these areas.  

Nevertheless, each of these “non-core” coins has brought me considerable enjoyment.  I don’t regret buying any of them (even the expensive ones).  One quality they tend to share is that they are outstanding examples of their types. 

Sometimes, an impulsive purchase of an unfamiliar coin can form the nidus of a new interest, and subcollection.  This happened to me with Carolingian coins.  An unexpected auction win has lead to a small subcollection of about 12 coins, and I am actively adding to this.  I have also purchased the relevant books, which is imperative once you have mentally committed to collecting a certain genre of coins.  

So my advice would be to avoid premature specialization.  Buy what appeals to you.  Your specialization will probably evolve naturally, and your acquisition of references can follow. 

My last bit of advice is to buy the best coins of the type you can afford within your collecting budget.  If a coin is worth buying, it is worth buying an excellent example.   Exceptions to this rule exist, as sometimes the history associated with the coin, or the scarcity of it, will amply justify purchase of a worn or even damaged coin.  But as a rule of thumb, buy the best you can.  You will probably derive more enjoyment from choice coins, and you will find it easier to sell them should you decide to do so.  

[JAZ Numismatics]

Small Greek bronzes are underrated. They offer a wide variety of mythological themes, and many of them are aesthetically pleasing, and most of them won't break the bank.

MYSIA. Adramytion.

3rd-2nd century BC.

AE16, 4.7g, 12h.

Obv.: Laureate bust of Zeus right.

Rev.: AΔPYMTHNΩN; Horseman riding right with hand raised.

Ref.: SNG France 5 

 

 

OLYMPIA. Elis.

AE Dichalkon, 18mm, 5.8g.

Late 3rd century - 191 BC.

Obv.: Laureate head of Apollo right.

Rev.: Zeus standing right hurling thunderbolt and holding eagle; F - A / Σ across fields; monogram to lower left.

Ref.: BCD Olympia 294. 

 

 

TROAS, Aioleion. Circa 330-280 BC. Æ (16mm, 3.6 g). Laureate head of female (Hera?) right / Thunderbolt; kerykeion below. Lazzarini, Iniziop. 11; SNG Arikantürk 339–41.

 

 

PAMPHYLIA. Perge.

AE15, 3.7g; c. 50-30 BC.

Obv.: Cult statue of Artemis Pergaia facing, within distyle temple.

Rev.: APTEMIΛOΣ ΠEPΓAIAΣ to either side of bow and quiver.

Ref.: SNG BnF 373-8 

 

Edited March 18 by JAZ Numismatics

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Per the OP's comments about Alexander, I'm relatively sure that youtube's 'Classical Numismatics' did a video on lifetime vs. posthumous Alexanders.  He also did several different videos on collecting for beginners and affordable coins.

[kirispupis]

On 3/17/2024 at 12:07 PM, Typhon said:

One type I've been wanting to own is a lifetime issue of Alexander, which could be a good place to start since it's general enough and it's something I know I won't regret buying.

I started much this same way. I created a list of three coins I most wanted:

• Lifetime example of Alexander the Great
• Julius Caesar
• Dolphin coin from Olbia (because dolphins are awesome)

As I previously stated, I then fell down the "Alexander" rabbit hole where I've pretty much remained since. You can read about my progression and see my current collection here - https://ancientcoinstories.com/.

[Typhon]

Again, thank you all.

Hearing about your journeys really helps. My indecisiveness comes from not wanting to make a purchase I later regret, or that doesn't "fit" in a later collection, but I guess that's not an attitude you want to have. I now realise the process of collecting is much more organic.

That said, starting off with a list might be a good idea. The Alexander issue is one, and Caesar another. Apart from that I've been looking at coins of Pyrrhos, and the Taras issue commemorating his aid with the little elephant I think is fantastic; I'm really drawn to those details in coins. Every design has some historical context, and learning about those is what I find the most fascinating about ancient coins.

[traveler]

NGC writes a series of articles on ancients, covering a whole variety of themes. Always illustrated with coins too. It may help you decide what to collect.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/series/ancients/

[Ed Snible]

Insisting on not buying something you won’t like in ten years implies a commitment to not growing and learning for the next ten years.  I was talking with a friend who has collected for more than 60 years last week.  We both bought coins with holes in them in the beginning — and no longer like those coins.  So don’t do that!  Don’t worry about a few dud purchases.

You are doing the right thing by browsing price lists.  If you live within a few hours of a coin show that has ancients, visit and inspect actual coins.  Don’t just look at the display coins under glass; find a dealer who lets you riffle through entire boxes.

Usually, when you pick the one favorite item out of an entire catalog or entire coin show you’ll still believe the coin is above-average ten years later.

As your handle is "Typhon" probably you should collect coins whose reverses feature monsters and snakes.

[Heliodromus]

5 hours ago, Ed Snible said:

We both bought coins with holes in them in the beginning — and no longer like those coins.  So don’t do that! 

I'm actually rather fond of my holed coins!

What these all have in common is that they are either "special" types and/or types that were frequently holed & worn in antiquity, which tells you something about how they were perceived and how the message resonated at that time.

The aureus (actually an unlisted reverse type for Constantine) with it's dual piercings is likely to have circulated in India having arrived there as part of trade (so the holed pattern there is of Indian aureii in general). The VIRT EXERC and Festival of Isis types are the two most commonly holed types of Constantine (& the FoI types in general perhaps the most commonly holed type of any ancient?). The confronted Licinius I & II doesn't fit the pattern of a commonly holed type (I've only noticed one other), but is an unusual type in of itself and interesting to speculate why it appealed to someone.

 

Edited March 20 by Heliodromus

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

And I can't emphasize the history enough.  There were many times this summer where I'd collect this or that Byzantine emperor, just because of the fascinating insights on the HIstory of Byzantium.

Justinian II = must-listen on Totalus Rankium.

I'd also avoid the slabbed pieces.  You're going to pay a premium, the coins usually come with little or no attribution reference info, and like Aaron Berk says, one is just paying for the plastic.

Aaron Berk's podcasts also have an educational segment towards the end (beginning auction talk, then doofus buy (if that segment happens), and educational).

[Typhon]

19 hours ago, Ed Snible said:

Insisting on not buying something you won’t like in ten years implies a commitment to not growing and learning for the next ten years. 

That's a very reasonable statement, and I haven't thought about it like that. I guess it's also true what you say that a good coin will always be a good coin even if it doesn't fit in a later main collection.

20 hours ago, Ed Snible said:

As your handle is "Typhon" probably you should collect coins whose reverses feature monsters and snakes.

I admit that I do have a thing for mythological beasts, which is one reason I'm drawn to Alexandrian coinage. The Sikyon stater with the Chimera is amazing, but out of my reach unfortunately. I know that you can get a worn example for less, but I'm quite set on not going for a series where I cannot get a nice example within my budget.

17 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

And I can't emphasize the history enough.  There were many times this summer where I'd collect this or that Byzantine emperor, just because of the fascinating insights on the HIstory of Byzantium.

I fully agree. I like the History of Byzantium podcast as well, and Byzantine coins is a field I could probably go for if not for the fact that I do like the antiquity better and am not sold on the sole use Christian designs. That said, there's something about the fact that Byzantium was the last remnant of another time that appeals to me, same reason I like the history of the last Hellenistic kingdoms as well I assume.

[Ed Snible]

5 hours ago, Typhon said:

I admit that I do have a thing for mythological beasts, which is one reason I'm drawn to Alexandrian coinage. The Sikyon stater with the Chimera is amazing, but out of my reach unfortunately. I know that you can get a worn example for less, but I'm quite set on not going for a series where I cannot get a nice example within my budget.

Sikyon hemidrachms look quite good, and cost $100-$200.  For example:

Sikyon, circa 330/20-280 BC, hemidrachm, 2.82g, 15mm
Obv: ΣΙ; Chimaira advancing left, paw raised
ex-Stacks/Coin Galleries, December 2005 auction, lot 71
I believe the auction house called it “Attractively toned. Good VF”