Multatuli Posted January 20 · Member Share Posted January 20 (edited) Hey folks! I would like some help and opinion regarding this coin. I acquired it a few years ago, from a friend who lives in Portugal. I don’t know how and from whom he acquired it before. The coin has all the characteristics of an Arcadius AE3, minted in Cyzicus, VIRTVS EXERCITI type (RIC X 66, Arcadius), exergue with SMKA. It is in a deplorable state of conservation, which indicates that it has been circulated a lot. However, what stands out is that is a silver coin, and does not appear to be gilded or fourrée. It weighs 1.4g and has a diameter of 18mm at its largest axis. Initially, I thought of a barbaric imitation, as the legends style is something different (but that could just be due wear and tear), which could be used as a siliqua in limes region, or maybe a truly siliqua by itself. And it doesn’t have the weight or diameter even for a light miliarense. Has anyone seen anything similar or have any theory or knowledge to explain about this type of Coinage? Perhaps was it a joke by the celator, who decided to use some silver instead copper to pass his leisure time? Show your intriguing, strange or unexplained coins in this thread! Edited January 20 by Multatuli 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multatuli Posted January 24 · Member Author Share Posted January 24 Anyone to help me? Please…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted January 24 · Supporter Share Posted January 24 Why don't you think it's an imitation? They often copied existing coins but wrongly, so the reverses are from the wrong coins. Quite a lot of Arcadius siliquae weigh less than 1.4g, though, and were often clipped. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentinian Posted January 25 · Member Share Posted January 25 Many people have tried to figure out how Romans made coins with surface silvering. Suppose you wanted to know and tried to figure it out by taking a lousy coin (so you would not be destroying value if it didn't work well) and coating it, somehow, with melted silver. When you are done, your experiment has yielded some silver-looking lousy coins. What should you do with them? I figure some people would try to pass them along as ancient oddities. That's my guess as to what it is. I am confident that anyone in ancient times who had good silver in which to strike a type of Arcadius would not issue such a poorly struck coin. I think the silver is not ancient. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis JJ Posted January 25 · Supporter Share Posted January 25 13 hours ago, Valentinian said: Many people have tried to figure out how Romans made coins with surface silvering. Suppose you wanted to know and tried to figure it out by taking a lousy coin (so you would not be destroying value if it didn't work well) and coating it, somehow, with melted silver. It doesn't even have to be melted silver. In a previous decade, I experimented with silver for other purposes -- namely, to see if an invisibly thin layer of surface silver would slow/stop/prevent bronze disease. I discovered that silver would "grab onto" the surface astonishingly easily, and an astonishingly small amount could result in a coin that appeared fully silvered, so "invisibly" was the only hard part. (I also recall a classroom exercise to zinc-plate a penny electrolytically.) I have no idea what's going on with the OP coin. But, since the above "experiments," I've always wondered how many coins on the market have been re-silvered (or re-zinced). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Victor_Clark Posted January 25 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted January 25 Corrosion may also promote a silvery surface on a coin. Lead corrodes very easily, and as it is displaced, silver can be deposited on the surface. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted January 25 · Member Share Posted January 25 That is very interesting. Below is Quintillus Antoninian from my collection. I have shown the coin before, pretty much with the same question. The coin is covered in a thick coating of silver (or silvery substance). Only the rim shows some spots of the underlying copper/bronze. I have no idea if the silver coating is the result of some artifical or natural processes. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted January 25 · Member Share Posted January 25 Then there is this coin. A small comon nummus of Constans. If I didn't know better, I would say the coin was struck in silver. Again, no idea what this is. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted January 25 · Supporter Share Posted January 25 (edited) 9 hours ago, Victor_Clark said: Lead corrodes very easily I don’t know if it corrodes very easily. It has been used since Roman times for plumbing (the Latin being plumbum, where Pb comes from) and is used in roofing specifically to repel water. But in certain circumstances it corrodes more quickly - like copper it needs a patina - which might be why this wouldn’t happen often to coins. Edited January 25 by John Conduitt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Victor_Clark Posted January 26 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted January 26 16 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: I don’t know if it corrodes very easily. It has been used since Roman times for plumbing (the Latin being plumbum, where Pb comes from) and is used in roofing specifically to repel water. But in certain circumstances it corrodes more quickly - like copper it needs a patina - which might be why this wouldn’t happen often to coins. Maybe I wasn't specific enough...it corrodes easily out of coins...nothing to do with plumbing. Teresa Clay, “Metallurgy and Metallography in Numismatics.” Numismatica e Antichità Classiche 17 (1988) : 341- 352. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multatuli Posted January 26 · Member Author Share Posted January 26 Thank you all very much for the responses. Very interesting comments. Some important points that I observe in my coin in question: I considered it as the possibility of imitation due to two factors: first, the legends (better visible in hand) and the appearance of the bust of Arcadius seem somewhat crude. Of course, we may have found a cellator with fewer skills, especially in this troubled period. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility of an imitation just because the two sides correspond. I have some coins in my collection and I have seen barbaric imitations with only slight subtitle changes, so this argument, although very reasonable, in my opinion would not be 100% valid. The coin in question could indeed be used as a “siliqua” or another denomination in a border/limes region, but with an incorrect metal and complete imitation of another monetary unit (AE 3, que don’t know the correct name), but in the metal expected for the function/value. It did the expected role for the weight and metal. Another important point is that it doesn't appear to have been artificially silvered. Not now and not even in Antiquity. It clearly has signs of natural aging, prolonged circulation and patina formation and under the microscope I see no signs of flaws, showing the core. It really looks like silver to me. The coin presented by @Tejas in the last post seems very similar in situation to mine. We may never really know what happened and why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted January 26 · Member Share Posted January 26 The frabric of the surfaces of my two coins above is very different. The Quintillus Ant. has a rough surface and under magnification tiny silver pellets are visible. The small cracks at the rim show that the silver coating is very thick. I'm not an expert at all, but I imagine some kind of chemical process involving acids and heat may have be involved. From the picture I get the impression that the Arcadius' has similar surfaces. The Constans nummus is completely different. Its colour and overall touch and feel is that of a contemporary siliqua. I wish I had access to a spectrometer to optain the exact composition of the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multatuli Posted January 26 · Member Author Share Posted January 26 Thank you very much, @Tejas. I would also like to have access to a spectrometer. Maybe I can get it at the university I work at. Making a more precise assessment, I really have the impression that it is solid silver, I don't see any cracks on the surface. In fact, it has a small break on the edge, where I notice that there is crystallization of the metal, clearly visible at higher magnification, and there do not appear to be two layers of metal or an inner core. It has the uniform appearance you see when you break a crystallized coin. But the amount of silver composition seems to be less than usual, debased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted January 26 · Member Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Multatuli said: But the amount of silver composition seems to be less than usual, debased. High-tin bronze and debased silver can look very much alike. As noted above, environmental factors and some cleaning methods can result in whitish surfaces on base coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor LONGINUS Posted January 27 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted January 27 (edited) Welcome to the NVMIS FORVMS, @Multatuli. Great post! – LONGINUS (AKA: DR, AKA: Deacon Ray) Edited January 27 by LONGINUS 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multatuli Posted January 29 · Member Author Share Posted January 29 On 1/27/2024 at 7:34 AM, LONGINUS said: Welcome to the NVMIS FORVMS, @Multatuli. Great post! – LONGINUS (AKA: DR, AKA: Deacon Ray) Very glad to see you here, Deacon Ray! / @LONGINUS 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasiel Posted February 1 · Member Share Posted February 1 Your Arcadius is not made of silver. It's probably just very high in tin. Happy to test it for you if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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