ewomack Posted July 5, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) Just like I sought out a Marcus Aurelius coin because of his association with Stoic philosophy, I also wanted to find a decent Julian II specimen because of his association with Cynic philosophy. Though not considered a "true Cynic," he defended traditional "lived" Cynicism, practiced by Diogenes of Sinope, against the more "literary" Cynicism of his day. I have read excerpts of his "Oration 9, Against the Ignorant Cynics" and "Oration 7, To the Cynic Heracleios," both of which discuss Cynic maxims, especially "Know Thyself," and defend the life of Diogenes as worthy of emulation. He also incorporated aspects of theurgy and Plotinian Neoplatonism into his religious beliefs. Of course, his attempt in 362 to "Make Rome Pagan Again" and return it to its classical roots marks him as the last Roman non-Christian Emperor and a pretty fascinating historical figure all-around. His attempts at pagan revisionism apparently didn't quell the momentum of Christianity and his early death at the Battle of Samarra against the Sasanians left the question of whether he could have stemmed the Christian tide forever unanswerable. This is a pretty dark coin that looks great in hand, but resists photography, perhaps slightly due to the slab. Not everyone likes slabs, and I may someday "free" the coin, but it seemed like one of the better examples I could find. The slab grades it "Ch. XF," does not include any subcategories such as "Strike" or "Surface, and adds "lt. smoothing." A more complete attribution is below the pictures. I'm still relatively new to ancients, I believe this represents only my 7th on the pile. Any thoughts? Julian II (360 - 363) AE1 (BI Maiorina); Thessalonika Mint; Obv: DN FL CL IVLIANUS PF AUG; Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right; Rev: SECVRITAS REIPVB; Bull standing right, two stars above;*TESΓ in exergue; Ref: RIC 226; NGC Graded Ch. XF Edited July 5, 2022 by ewomack 14 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted July 5, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) Nice coin and thanks for the philosophical backdrop. Edit: Here's my Julian double majorina or AE1: Edited July 6, 2022 by Ancient Coin Hunter 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Victor_Clark Posted July 5, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 5, 2022 The people of Antioch demonstrated against Julian II "shouting that his coinage had a bull and that the world was overturned." (Socrates, Hist. Eccl. 3.17) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Steve Posted July 5, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 5, 2022 NICE!! => that's a sweet OP-addition, ewomack (congrats on snagging a cool bull-coin) Ummm, you didn't ask for our participation, but whatev, participation is my middle name (Total Dick is my first) => here is my eye-candy example (man, I loved this coin) 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Kowsky Posted July 5, 2022 · Member Share Posted July 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, ewomack said: Just like I sought out a Marcus Aurelius coin because of his association with Stoic philosophy, I also wanted to find a decent Julian II specimen because of his association with Cynic philosophy. Though not considered a "true Cynic," he defended traditional "lived" Cynicism, practiced by Diogenes of Sinope, against the more "literary" Cynicism of his day. I have read excerpts of his "Oration 9, Against the Ignorant Cynics" and "Oration 7, To the Cynic Heracleios," both of which discuss Cynic maxims, especially "Know Thyself," and defend the life of Diogenes as worthy of emulation. He also incorporated aspects of theurgy and Plotinian Neoplatonism into his religious beliefs. Of course, his attempt in 362 to "Make Rome Pagan Again" and return it to its classical roots marks him as the last Roman non-Christian Emperor and a pretty fascinating historical figure all-around. His attempts at pagan revisionism apparently didn't quell the momentum of Christianity and his early death at the Battle of Samarra against the Sasanians left the question of whether he could have stemmed the Christian tide forever unanswerable. This is a pretty dark coin that looks great in hand, but resists photography, perhaps slightly due to the slab. Not everyone likes slabs, and I may someday "free" the coin, but it seemed like one of the better examples I could find. The slab grades it "Ch. XF," does not include any subcategories such as "Strike" or "Surface, and adds "lt. smoothing." A more complete attribution is below the pictures. I'm still relatively new to ancients, I believe this represents only my 7th on the pile. Any thoughts? Julian II (360 - 363) AE1 (BI Maiorina); Thessalonika Mint; Obv: DN FL CL IVLIANUS PF AUG; Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right; Rev: SECVRITAS REIPVB; Bull standing right, two stars above;*TESΓ in exergue; Ref: RIC 226; NGC Graded Ch. XF ewomack, You added an interesting coin for a newbie 😊. The coin has historical importance as you point out 😉. By the mid 4th century nothing was going to change the momentum of Christianity, even the barbarian hoards moving west of the Danube were rapidly converting to Christianity. Pictured below is a bronze of Julian II I bought many years ago. 10 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegandron Posted July 6, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted July 6, 2022 Julian full of Bull...RI Julian II CE 360-363 AE1 maiorina Diademed R - SECVRITAS REIPVB 2 stars Apis Bull stg R ANT-Gamma 2 palms ANTIOCH RIC 217 LRBC 2641 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted July 6, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 6, 2022 Julian II's hair and beard in coins minted in Sirmium, like mine and @Al Kowsky's, are always distinctive and recognizable, even if the portraits otherwise don't resemble each other. Julian II, AE Double Maiorina, 361-363 AD, Sirmium [Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia] Mint, 2nd Officina. Obv. Pearl-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right, FL CL IVLI-ANVS PF AVG / Bull standing right, two stars above, SECVRITAS REIPVB; in exergue: mintmark star-BSIRM-palm branch. RIC VIII Sirmium 107B (p. 392), Sear RCV V 19152 (ill.), Cohen 38. 28 mm., 8.48 g. 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor VD76 Posted July 11, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 11, 2022 Julian II "the Apostate," February 360 - 26 June 363 A.D Billon double maiorina. 25.8mm / 8.412g 3rd officina, Constantina (Arles, France) mint Obverse : D N FL CL IVLIA-NVS P F AVG, pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right . Reverse : SECVRITAS REIPVB, bull standing right, two stars above; lower right, eagle standing on wreath, another wreath in beak, TCONST• in exergue . RIC VIII Arles 322 (R), LRBC II 469, SRCV V 19148, Cohen VIII 39 Ex FORVM 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted July 11, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted July 11, 2022 One of the few/only emperors I like after Aurelian. The guy who fought back against the turning tide of religious fervor and Christianity. No way this guy's death was an accident, right?? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted July 11, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 11, 2022 On 7/5/2022 at 4:20 PM, Victor_Clark said: The people of Antioch demonstrated against Julian II "shouting that his coinage had a bull and that the world was overturned." (Socrates, Hist. Eccl. 3.17) Taurus or the Apis Bull. I tend to think the former... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted July 12, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 12, 2022 Also, note that Jovianus, the commander of the Imperial Guard under Julian, was elevated to Augustus and concluded a shameful treaty with the Persians. He retained the large bronze denomination, but died on the way back to Constantinople in the city Dadastana, according to Ammianus, from the interaction of the fumes of a freshly plastered wall in his chamber with a charcoal brazier used for heating the room. "From here also the destined day for ending his life drove Jovian swiftly on. For when he had come to Dadastana, which forms the boundary between Bithynia and Galatia, he was found dead that night. As to his taking-off, many doubtful points have come up. For it is said that he was unable to endure the unwholesome odour of a recently plastered bedroom, or that his head was swollen from the burning of a great amount of charcoal and so he died, or at any rate that he had a fit of acute indigestion from an immoderate amount of food of different kinds. At all events he died in the thirty-third year of his age." Ammianus, Liber XXV 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted July 12, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Ancient Coin Hunter said: Taurus or the Apis Bull. I tend to think the former... I agree. I see nothing that would suggest the Apis bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliodromus Posted July 12, 2022 · Member Share Posted July 12, 2022 There's a lot been written on the meaning of Julian's bull, and I think the consensus is that it's basically a reference to the emperor himself, most proximately by his birth sign of Taurus (with the stars representing the Peiades and Hyades groups of stars - the latter appropriately positioned between the horns), but perhaps also with an allusion to Helios (and Helios' cattle) given Julian's devotion to Helios. There's a lot in Julian's own extensive writing to draw on. Gallienus also uses a bull to refer to Helios on one of his zoo types. The inhabitants of Antioch appear to have deliberately chosen to misinterpret Julian's bull as a reference to his excessive bull sacrifices, which he comments on in his Misopogon ("beard hater") work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted July 12, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2022 The Heraclea mint is missing: Julianus II Æ-1, Herakleia, AD 361-363 Obv.: DN FL CL IVLI - ANVS P F AVG, Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right. Rev.: SECVRITAS REIPVB / • HERACL • B, Bull standing right, two stars above Ae, 8.01g, 28.3mm Ref.: RIC 104 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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