Another eastern owl

[robinjojo]

The procession continues.  

This example has some interesting features.  On the obverse there appear to be, top to bottom, two Aramaic characters a L and S, with an unknown character or symbol below.  The reverse has graffiti in the form of an Aramaic G.  There's also a test cut on the obverse.

Athens eastern imitation owl, late 4th-3rd centuries BC.

16.96 grams

Here are a couple of enlargements:

Obverse:

Reverse:

As always I appreciate any comments.  I am not very knowledgeable about ancient languages and the myriad variations thereof.  I am pretty sure that the characters on the obverse are not die rust or die breaks.  They do appear to quite intentional as part of the die engraving process.  Perhaps these are some sort of control marks for this die?  Any other ideas?

Thanks! 

Edit:

Here's an Aramaic alphabet for reference:

Edited December 30, 2023 by robinjojo

[JeandAcre]

Regardless of how far the interpretive details go, this is already Very, Very Cool.  Where ancient (especially Middle Eastern and broadly Nilo-Semitic) languages are concerned, I'll never not have vastly more enthusiasm than substantive acquaintance.  But this juxtaposition is already fun as all get-out.  It's remarkable how subtle the distinguishing marks are.  ...How well does this stuff dovetail with the copies of owls allegedly used to pay Greek mercenaries toward the end of the Pharaonic period?

[Deinomenid]

The Aramaic g is also the gamma of a few of the Greek alphabets, as well as  lambda  of course. It appears as a gamma on various Cypriot coins too as a control/mint mark and  I occasionally  see it on  Greek Italian coins as a presumed lambda griffto...

All above probably not too relevant aside from the Cypriot control possibility sorry!

[robinjojo]

10 minutes ago, JeandAcre said:

Regardless of how far the interpretive details go, this is already Very, Very Cool.  Where ancient (especially Middle Eastern and broadly Nilo-Semitic) languages are concerned, I'll never not have vastly more enthusiasm than substantive acquaintance.  But this juxtaposition is already fun as all get-out.  It's remarkable how subtle the distinguishing marks are.  ...How well does this stuff dovetail with the copies of owls allegedly used to pay Greek mercenaries toward the end of the Pharaonic period?

Thanks!  That is indeed why I love collecting these sometimes enigmatic coins.  I think I like them primarily for their diversity of designs and styles - far more interesting than collecting the mostly monotonous classical Athenian owls that have flooded the market over the past several years now - that draws me to these imitations.  The imitations indicate the clear dominance in the East that Athenian owls had prior to the introduction of the vast coinage of Alexander III and his successors.    

As for payment to the Greek mercenaries employed by a pharaoh in his fight against the Persians, this coin could be one of those pharaonic owls, but I have never seen one with apparent characters as part of the die.  There are plenty of countermarked pharaonic owls out there, some with multiple countermarks, but the OP coin is a first for me, and it might be from a source in the vast region called the Levant.

I have more imitations that I hope to post in the future.

[robinjojo]

5 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

The Aramaic g is also the gamma of a few of the Greek alphabets, as well as  lambda  of course. It appears as a gamma on various Cypriot coins too as a control/mint mark and  I occasionally  see it on  Greek Italian coins as a presumed lambda griffto...

All above probably not too relevant aside from the Cypriot control possibility sorry!

Thank you!

I'll research the possible Greek connection.  That lower squiggly line at the bottom on the obverse is something that I cannot identify as a character, so I think it might be an ornamental device to highlight the two upper characters.

 

[JeandAcre]

Yes!  This is equally true of a lot of earlier medieval --it's bracing to get the ongoing impression that you're collecting smack in the middle of ongoing research.

...Honest, could you advise about finding a representative, countermarked pharaonic one (granted, the likely price range is already scaring me)?  At your discretion, you'd be very welcome to do anything along these lines by way of personal messaging.

[robinjojo]

2 minutes ago, JeandAcre said:

Yes!  This is equally true of a lot of earlier medieval --it's bracing to get the ongoing impression that you're collecting smack in the middle of ongoing research.

...Honest, could you advise about finding a representative, countermarked pharaonic one (granted, the likely price range is already scaring me)?  At your discretion, you'd be very welcome to do anything along these lines by way of personal messaging.

I will look around and let you know if I find one that isn't too expensive.

This is my most recent pharaonic owl a Buttrey-Flament Style A, a good VF and a lovely example, from a very recent CNG e-auction. The hammer price was $425 plus a 20% buyer's fee.  

 

Here's another pharaonic owl, from Nablus.  These owls circulated well beyond Egypt!

 

Finally one more with two countermarks . 

Egypt pharaonic owl, late 5th-mid 4th centuries BC.  Reverse cm Aramaic letter retrograde (He)  Buttrey-Flament Miscellaneous.

17.08 grams

 

[robinjojo]

I guess that I have a case of the squiggles.  This is an eastern, possibly pharaonic owl, which arrived today, with the "droopy" style eye.  Some experts assign the dies as originating from Athens, which is possible, but apparently these coins were struck in Egypt, possibly at Memphis.  

I purchased this owl from a seller on MA Shops because of what seems to be engraving added to the obverse die.

Athens eastern imitation owl, late 4th-3rd centuries BC.

17.17 grams

 

Here's the OP owl:

Now, if we compare the obverse section of this owl with the detail shot of the OP owl, here's what we have:

The OP owl:

 

Here's the obverse section of the owl in this post:

 

The lower sections are in basically the same locations on the portraits of both coins.  There seems to be a lower "squiggly" line in both cases, similar in style, with what seems to be characters above.  Mere coincidence?  Possibly - they could be die breaks - but the fact that these features seem to occur in the same areas, near the chin and neck, might indicate a more deliberate intention by the die engravers.  What could this be?  The investigation continues...

Edited January 16 by robinjojo

[kirispupis]

This is a fascinating coin. Have a bunch of meetings, so I'm limited in what I can write, but at first glance I don't think this is an "L and an S" but looks like the remnants of a 'B'. See this coin, which may be of the same type - https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8488316

[kirispupis]

25 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

This is a fascinating coin. Have a bunch of meetings, so I'm limited in what I can write, but at first glance I don't think this is an "L and an S" but looks like the remnants of a 'B'. See this coin, which may be of the same type - https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8488316

On further investigation, I'm not so sure about the 'B'. I don't see the trailing line that would designate it as such.

Reading right to left, the first letter certainly looks like a 'D'. The second is tougher, but kind of looks like a 'W' to me. I'm still extremely new at reading these inscriptions, but I based these off a 'database' I built of Aramaic inscriptions to help with problems like these. So, my guess is 'DW', but I could easily be wrong. 

I'm wondering if the graffito is Phoenician, in which case I believe it would be a 'G'.

That would solidify it as "Philistia", which I'm guessing is the best you can do. It does seem that Aramaic inscriptions on the cheek other than the Gaza 'M' (which is itself rare) are extremely rare. It's definitely an amazing pickup.

[robinjojo]

Thanks!

What do you think of the owl that posted today?  It is a head-scratcher, but there seems to be a common pattern between the two coins.

[kirispupis]

26 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

Thanks!

What do you think of the owl that posted today?  It is a head-scratcher, but there seems to be a common pattern between the two coins.

Another interesting coin! This one seems a bit tougher. I don't think the lines towards the jaw are letters, but above it appear to be.

My first thought was an Aramaic 'M' (Gaza), but it doesn't fit that mold. The 'Y' almost looks Greek, but I think it's an Aramaic 'Y'. There seems to be a worn letter before it and it's difficult to make out. It could be a 'T', but also could be an 'M'.

[robinjojo]

Thanks!  I'll continue the research, such as it is with me.  There's overlap between Aramaic and Paleo Hebrew for many characters, not to mention all the script/period styles - really gets rather bewildering. 

Edited January 17 by robinjojo

[kirispupis]

15 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

Thanks!  I'll continue the research, such as it is with me.  There's overlap between Aramaic and Paleo Hebrew for many characters, not to mention all the script/period styles - really gets rather bewildering. 

Keep in mind all of my guesses are framed within my limited knowledge of the subject. 🙂

From some previous research, I believe paleo-Hebrew was only in use around Judea and Samaria. These coins may come from there, but I'm doubtful. The style of Aramaic, AFAICT, appears consistent with the Levant though.

[NewStyleKing]

This was an old style that I once owned. There is some graffiti on the reverse.

I believed it was a Buttrey M type Egyptian copy  17.07 g  23 mm

 

[Deinomenid]

On 12/30/2023 at 4:37 PM, robinjojo said:

They do appear to quite intentional as part of the die engraving process. 

The new Harlan Berk  book says the marks (he uses the w or shin or sh example and makes clear  to his son on the podcast it's not a sigma but a w)  are absolutely deliberate. Just in case it's  of help! I asked another question about that podcast separately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6f-tpeW3d0

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