A Tarentine Conundrum

[Phil Anthos]

I aquired this coin earlier this year thinking it was a nice type I didn't have, and it was relatively cheap. But it soon turned into an interesting attribution project, one which has me stumped. I was hoping for a resolution with the release of the 3rd volume of the D'Andrea series but that was not to be as the problem just seems to be carried over.

The problem is with the object carried by the dolphin rider, described variously as a 'cornucopia' or 'distaff'. Some sources describe one while showing the other, some list both types and others only recognize one variety with no mention of the other, etc.

But rather than try to reproduce all the discrepancies here I will just repost this thread from Forvm (from response 267 down)...

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=78345.250

So if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I am open. Otherwise I may try contacting Alberto D'Andrea to see if he has any thoughts on the matter.

And thanks in advance.

~ Peter 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Deinomenid]

I'd bet good money its a distaff. As with these 2. It's the same shape, proportion,  top section. I suspect a simple misattribution elsewhere.s

[Deinomenid]

Cornucopias are usually very different looking.

[Phil Anthos]

They are, but both types definitely exist.

Vlasto has 4 specimens, 904-07, all described as distaff and the 4 plates agree. No mention of a cornucopia type.

HGC 1 has only one coin listed, 894, which is odd in itself for a fairly common type, this one showing a cornucopia and described as such.

Evans has one example, VIII K1, and is similar to the HGC coin.

McGill II, 112 is the same.

SNG France 2041-43 all show distaff but seem to describe a trident, although my French is strictly the restaurant dialect.

D'Andrea lists two dies, 1402 and 1403. The latter is shown and described as a distaff, but... 1402 shows three specimens, all described as a distaff (one which is the same coin as the HGC example), but one which is actually a cornucopia.

And then the McClean listing in the link above just confuses things more.

So obviously both types exist, and these are all major references for Taras. And yet not one appears aware of the two different types. All attributions seem to point back to the same references regardless of what the rider is holding. I find that so unusual that I can't help feel I'm missing something. 

~ Confusedly, Peter 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Romismatist]

It's a distaff (conocchia in Italian).

[Phil Anthos]

Yes this one is. The problem is that not all of them are, but there is no disambiguation between the two types. For instance this page from D'Andrea III, XLIV 1402 with a closeup of the third coin...

~ Peter 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Phil Anthos]

Bump

[Ryro]

Cool coin and conundrum.

I picked up my only Tarantine last year for the Pyrrhos connection:

Pyrrhos

ITALY. Calabria. Tarentum

Didrachm or nomos (silver). Approx. 280 - 272 BC Chr.

Obv: warrior on horseback with Macedonian shield w/star of Vergina boss and spear riding left; Zeta Omega in left field, magistrate's name between legs.

Rev: Naked Taras with spindle and bunch of grapes, riding left on dolphin; in the field on the right ear of corn.

22mm 6.45g

HN Italy 1013; Coll. Vlasto 800.

Very nice. Purchased from Solidus March 2023

[MrMonkeySwag96]

 

6.51g, 19mm Helmeted horseman right, holding a spear and shield. "TI" to left. Naked youth riding a dolphin left, holding a trident, Nike flying right above. Rudder below Vlasto 899-902

Edited July 14 by MrMonkeySwag96