Marketing Ancients: Selling the Story .. even if its a stretch

[Constantivs]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:18 PM, ambr0zie said:

@Curtisimo- thank you for the detailed explanation about the homereium. I wasn't sure if I read about that denomination in the past but now I remembered.

I am still curious if my coin also displays Homer (yours and the OP coin show the reverse character holding a scroll - on mine, he only has a transverse sceptre).

I also sincerely appreciate @Curtisimopost...  (it makes me love my coin all the more!).. but each and every post here at least makes us question the claims that the  "market" pushes. Asking questions and demanding answers is never poor practice.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Constantivs

[Constantivs]

On 7/1/2022 at 4:37 PM, Kamnaskires said:

Those who regularly hunt for coins of Elymais have likely encountered this laughable marketing ploy consisting of silly packaging for second century AD Elymaean drachms. The selling point is that the coin is somehow connected to the location of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.

 

Never mind that there is, I believe, no definitive archaeological evidence for the actual existence of the Hanging Gardens. Never mind that Elymais was hundreds of miles east of Babylon. Never mind that the supposed “numismatists (who) now believe” that the Hanging Gardens were in Elam are unnamed. Never mind that, among the theories shared by Elymaean specialists regarding the dashes of the reverses of these types of coins, there in no mention (that I know of) about a connection to the Hanging Gardens.

 

I forgive them all of that. However, sadly, I have to interject a dose of reality: Elam (which is where the sellers say the Hanging Gardens actually existed) came to an end with the rise of the Achaemenids almost four centuries before the kingdom of Elymais was even established – and almost seven centuries before the minting of this particular coin! Furthermore, the author of this silliness seems to think (or wants the reader to think) that the Elymaean and Elamite kingdoms were one and the same. The text inside the box includes a number of passages about ancient Elam despite the fact that the coin is from Elymais.

 

Although the Elymaeans were likely descended from the earlier Elamites, we’re dealing with two different kingdoms and two different time periods. Thus, the coin has – at best – a very tenuous connection to Elam which, in turn, has a tenuous (or perhaps no) connection to the 6^th century BC Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Which may not have existed at all.

 

But, hey, the “riddle” ploy, with its shades of Indiana Jones solving an ancient mystery, is (I guess?) clever…

An excellent example of the unscrupulous claims made. Collectors need to know better (including myself, of course).  

[Steppenfool]

On 6/30/2022 at 5:33 PM, DLTcoins said:

Regarding the 'tribute penny', although the evangelist is writing in Greek, Jesus explicitly asks the crowd for a "denarius" (δηναριον). Jesus then points out that the denarius bears the portrait and inscription of "Caesar". Tiberius was the reigning caesar throughout Jesus' historical ministry and the 'Livia seated' type is far and away the most common of Tiberius' denarii.

That is true, but we must still be careful. The Gospel of Mark was written a few decades after Jesus ministry, and he certainly wasn't an eyewitness. It is entirely possible that Mark being a Greek speaking resident of the Roman empire, and writing for the communities within it, used a well known term like "denarius" in place of something more vague like "silver coin".

All this assumes the event is historical in the first instance too. There's reasonable arguments to be made that one of Mark's aims is to domesticate the account of Jesus to make it more palatable to a Roman audience. After all, Jesus was executed for sedition and this facthad to be ameliorated. This anecdote is one of the most notable instances of this and the use of the word "denarius" aids in the task. 

[Prieure de Sion]

Who is surprised?

Sex sells!
And for us "numismatists", the historical background is the sex substitute.

😄

[DLTcoins]

8 hours ago, Steppenfool said:

That is true, but we must still be careful. The Gospel of Mark was written a few decades after Jesus ministry, and he certainly wasn't an eyewitness. It is entirely possible that Mark being a Greek speaking resident of the Roman empire, and writing for the communities within it, used a well known term like "denarius" in place of something more vague like "silver coin".

All this assumes the event is historical in the first instance too. There's reasonable arguments to be made that one of Mark's aims is to domesticate the account of Jesus to make it more palatable to a Roman audience. After all, Jesus was executed for sedition and this facthad to be ameliorated. This anecdote is one of the most notable instances of this and the use of the word "denarius" aids in the task. 

The 'tribute penny' that matters, I think, is the one in the mind of the writer. As I understand it, there were few, if any, imperial denarii circulating in Galilee or Judaea in the 20s CE. The use of Latinate words for coins is one of the pieces of internal evidence that suggests the Gospel of Mark was composed for a western community, likely in the 60s CE. The gospel taken as a whole suggests an oppressed community, one prone to question whether taxes should be paid to the oppressor.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by DLTcoins