A little branching out - my first trachy

[ambr0zie]

In my last auction I was not able to win some coins I wanted more (probably a bad decision, since the prices were OK-ish, but sometimes I am too harsh and the price I want to pay is too low, this is not necessarily a bad thing). So I had a look on different sections in the auctions, where I don't usually look. 

I bought 3 coins that are not in my usual areas, but the fact that I liked them historically/aesthetically makes them good additions. 

One of them is a coin type I slightly had on my bucket list because I think this type is extremely interesting - a trachy. I knew about trachys for a long time, when I was just interested in modern coins, and the most attractive/odd part about them, is, of course, the shape. 

A lot of interesting stuff about trachys in this CT thread.

One thing to mention - a theory says that the shape of these coins mimics the dome of the church. The convex part is towards the sky and this is why on it Jesus Christ or Virgin Mary are depicted. The concave part is towards the mortal world, so on this part the emperors are depicted. 

I wanted a trachy but the ones I randomly saw in auctions were not appealing (for me). Cracked, chunks missing, very poorly struck. I was under the impression that getting a decent trachy is difficult. I knew they are not expensive in general, but I was under the impression that most of them are in a bad shape. Not entirely correct as when I started reading about them I saw examples in great preservation, good artistry. Of course, the price is proportional. 

26,5 mm, 2,7 g

John II Comnenus (1118-1143). BI Aspron Trachy. Thessalonica.

MHP – ΘV, Virgin Mary seated facing on throne, holding Christ medallion on breast / + Iω ΔΕCΠΟT Tω ΠOPΦVPOΓENHT, John standing facing, holding labarum and akakia.

Sear 1952.

It is a strange feeling to hold a coin with  different features than the ones you would expect. I am a little concerned with the coin's integrity (I store them in an album) so I decided to put it in a 2x2 cardboard holder - I think the pressure from the album should be better now, but I am not entirely convinced it's 100% safe. Anyway, before holding a trachy in hand I thought they are thinner and more fragile than this actually is. 

Verdict - very interesting coin. And clearly deserves an example in my album as it is an important piece in the numismatic puzzle. Will I start collecting more trachys? Probably not. I like coins with more complex artistry, clearer legends (I don't understand the reverse legend, even looking at much better examples). 

Please show your trachys / coins that you bought even if they are not in your major area of interest. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ambr0zie

[JayAg47]

A nice addition.

Manuel I Komnenos, 1143-1180 AD

I don't agree with the idea of trachys were made to resemble the dome of church, although I agree with the placement of images on the concave/convex sides. These types of coins existed way before the appearance of domed churches. I think this design is for aesthetics, probably stacks better, and to deter counterfeiting as it's much harder to make a curved die/blank. 

Here's a much older scyphate coin,

Himyar of Southern Yemen.
MDN BYN YHQBD.
80-100 AD.
Raidan mint

Edited August 12, 2023 by JayAg47

[ominus1]

..kool Ambr0zie...a cup coin...i've yet to get one but i've bid on a few...nice one 2! 🙂

[sand]

@ambr0zie That's a nice looking Byzantine trachy. Also, it seems to have some of the silvering. I just finished posting my earliest trachy, in the "The Epic Byzantine Portrait Thread", which just reached the era of the trachy coins, 2 days ago. Here is my earliest trachy, below. Why were these coins cup shaped? No one seems to know for sure. Perhaps to make the thin coins structurally stronger, and less likely to get bent. Perhaps to make the coins look bigger, especially when heaped in a pile. Perhaps to make the coins more difficult to counterfeit. Perhaps for spiritual reasons.

Alexius I. Billon Aspron Trachy. Minted 1092 AD To 1093 AD. Constantinople Mint. Sear 1918. DO 25. Maximum Diameter 26.8 mm. Weight 3.01 grams. Obverse : Jesus Christ Seated Upon Throne, Bearded, With Halo, Holding Book In Left Hand. Reverse : Alexius I Bust Facing Front, Bearded, Holding Scepter Cruciger In Right Hand, Holding Globus Cruciger In Left Hand.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

It's a very nice first trachy!

I think I might have one like sand's.  I think I bought a nice one from Jon Subak, many years ago. 

[Glebe]

11 hours ago, sand said:

@ambr0zie That's a nice looking Byzantine trachy. Also, it seems to have some of the silvering. I just finished posting my earliest trachy, in the "The Epic Byzantine Portrait Thread", which just reached the era of the trachy coins, 2 days ago. Here is my earliest trachy, below. Why were these coins cup shaped? No one seems to know for sure. Perhaps to make the thin coins structurally stronger, and less likely to get bent. Perhaps to make the coins look bigger, especially when heaped in a pile. Perhaps to make the coins more difficult to counterfeit. Perhaps for spiritual reasons.

Alexius I. Billon Aspron Trachy. Minted 1092 AD To 1093 AD. Constantinople Mint. Sear 1918. DO 25. Maximum Diameter 26.8 mm. Weight 3.01 grams. Obverse : Jesus Christ Seated Upon Throne, Bearded, With Halo, Holding Book In Left Hand. Reverse : Alexius I Bust Facing Front, Bearded, Holding Scepter Cruciger In Right Hand, Holding Globus Cruciger In Left Hand.

The silver coating on this Sear 1918 looks a bit too good to be true - it's very thick and shows no sign of wear.

Modern perhaps?

 

 

[Edessa]

I know this is just another story of the old days, but at one time these Byzantine Trachy were even more underappreciated than today. The following coins came from a large lot that I had from CNG back in 1994. They worked out to $3 each. At some point I sold most of them at some exorbitant markup, like $6 to $10 each.

It's really hard to get good pics of these coins. I have been experimenting with photo stacking in Photoshop. I am pleased with the results, but I am going to keep working on it. This early purchase hooked me on Ancient Coins. The fact that you could own such interesting and important bits of history for very little money was captivating. 

The Dumbarton Oaks catalogs may be downloaded for free, I think from their website, and along with the interesting historical writeups you can see the almost infinite variety of variations in devices and lettering that make the exact attribution of these poorly stuck pieces quite challenging.

Manuel I Comnenus, AD 1143-1180. BI Aspron Trachy (28mm, 4.00g, 6h). Fourth Coinage. Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1167-1183(?). Obv: Christ bearded and nimbate, one dot in each limb of the nimbate cross, wearing tunic and kolobion, seated upon throne without back, raising right hand in benediction and holding book of Gospels in His left; IX-XC in fields to left and right. Rev: MAN૪HΛ [ΔECΠOTH], Manuel on the left, wearing divitision and loros, holding labarum and cross on globe, being crowned by Virgin, wearing robes and maphorion, both standing facing, M[P-ΘV] to right and left of Virgin, three jewels on emperor's loros between waist and collar piece, loros waist has dots pellets in diagonal cross arrangement, collar has three jewels. Ref: DOC 13; SB 1966. About Very Fine, double struck, nice dark patina with slightly rough surface. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

Manuel I Comnenus, AD 1143-1180. BI Aspron Trachy (31mm, 4.99g, 6h). Fourth Coinage. Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1167-1183(?). Obv: Christ bearded and nimbate, one dot in each limb of the nimbate cross, wearing tunic and kolobion, seated upon throne without back, raising right hand in benediction and holding book of Gospels in His left; IX-XC in fields to left and right. Rev: MAN૪HΛ ΔECΠOTH, Manuel on the left, wearing divitision and loros, holding labarum and cross on globe, being crowned by Virgin, wearing robes and maphorion, both standing facing, MP-ΘV to right and left of Virgin, three jewels on emperor's loros between waist and collar piece, loros waist has dots pellets in diagonal cross arrangement. Ref: DOC 13i; SB 1966. Very Fine, double struck on obverse, nice dark green patina, full legend on reverse. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

Isaac II Angelus. First reign, AD 1185-1195. BI Aspron Trachy (29mm, 3.09g, 5h). Variety Ab. Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1185-1195. Obv: The Virgin enthroned facing, wearing tunic and maphorion, seated upon throne with back, holding the beardless, nimbate head of Christ on breast; MP-ΘV in fields to left and right. Rev: [I/CAA/KI/O]C-ΔE[CΠOTHC]; Full-length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, collar-piece, jeweled loros of simplified type and sagion; holds scepter cruciger in right hand and anexikakia in left; Manus Dei in upper right field. Ref: SB 2003; DOC IV 3d. Very Fine, dark green patina, two pinhead perforations. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

Isaac II Angelus. First reign, AD 1185-1195. BI Aspron Trachy (26mm, 3.98g, 6h). Variety Bb. Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1185-1195. Obv: The Virgin enthroned facing, wearing tunic and maphorion, seated upon throne with back, holding the beardless, nimbate head of Christ on breast; MP-ΘV in fields to left and right. Rev: [I/CAA/KI/[OC]-ΔE[CΠOTHC]; Full-length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, collar-piece, jeweled loros of simplified type and sagion; holds scepter cruciger in right hand and anexikakia in left; Manus Dei in upper right field. Collar-piece has seven jewels. Ref: SB 2003; DOC IV 3d. About Very Fine, nice dark patina, some double striking. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

Alexius III Angelus-Comnenus, AD 1195-1203. BI Aspron Trachy (29mm, 3.93g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1195-1197. Obv: +KER[O-HQEI]; Nimbate, bearded, facing bust of Christ Emmanuel wearing tunic and kolobion, holds scroll in left hand; IC-XC across fields. Rev: AΛЄ ΣIⲰ ΔЄCΠ (pellet in circle) KOMNHNⲰ; Full-length figure of emperor on left and of a nimbate St. Constantine on right holding between them globus cruicger surmounted by a patriarchal cross; Emperor and Saint wear stemma, divitision, collar-piece and jeweled loros of simplified type; both hold labarum-headed scepter; Symbol in field to right. Ref: DOC 3d; SB 2013. Good Fine, nice patina, double struck on obverse with loss of detail, apparently good silver content. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

Alexius III Angelus-Comnenus, AD 1195-1203. BI Aspron Trachy (27mm, 3.33g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Struck AD 1195-1197. Obv: KE RO-HQEI; Nimbate, bearded, facing bust of Christ Emmanuel wearing tunic and kolobion, holds scroll in left hand; IC-XC across fields. Rev: [AΛЄ] ΣIⲰ [ΔЄCΠ] (pellet in circle) [KOMNHNⲰ]; Full-length figure of emperor on left and of a nimbate St. Constantine on right holding between them globus cruicger. Emperor and Saint wear stemma, divitision, collar-piece and jeweled loros of simplified type; both hold labarum-headed scepter; Symbol in field to right. Ref: DOC 3a; SB 2013. About Very Fine, nice patina, double struck. Ex CNG (June 1994) Multiple Lot.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Edessa

[sand]

59 minutes ago, Glebe said:

The silver coating on this Sear 1918 looks a bit too good to be true - it's very thick and shows no sign of wear.

Modern perhaps?

 

 

That's a good question. I've occasionally wondered, if the silvering is authentic/original. I'm not knowledgeable enough, to know for sure. In a way, the coin looks worn, because of a lack of details, especially on the obverse/Jesus side, and yet there is a lot of silvering, as if perhaps someone in modern times painted the coin with silver paint, or perhaps dipped the coin in hot molten silver. Or maybe it was just a weak strike. I'm not very knowledgeable, about the Byzantine silvering process. I read somewhere, that the Byzantine (and Roman Imperial) silvering process, may have been more complicated, than simply dipping the struck coin into a vat of hot molten silver, and that the silver was somehow infused within the coin before the coin was struck, perhaps settling mostly on the surface of the coin. I just now looked at the coin, in my hand. On the obverse/Jesus side, there is some yellow and/or brown toning, mostly on the lower right part of the coin. The 2 dark splotches on the center of the lower part of the obverse/Jesus side, are mostly just areas where there is a variation in the texture of the silvering, with maybe a little bit of yellow and/or brown toning. The texture of the top splotch seems especially smooth, and the texture of the bottom splotch also seems very smooth in some areas. On the reverse/Emperor side, the silvering has some yellow and/or brown toning, near the upper part of the coin. Perhaps the coin was cleaned, and perhaps the coin has some cabinet toning. Or perhaps not all of the original toning was removed by the cleaning. Here are higher resolution photos of my coin, in case anyone wants to look at it more closely. Perhaps I'll take some photos of the coin, using my microscope, and then post the photos in this thread, to see if that would reveal anything.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sand

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

Id assume some kind of chemical reaction has occurred to change the surface texture and quality. Such an occurrence perhaps isn’t too odd considering the environments these coins were deposited in combined with the often harsh chemical cleanings they received at the hands of what might charitably be called amateurs. 

[sand]

24 minutes ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

Id assume some kind of chemical reaction has occurred to change the surface texture and quality. Such an occurrence perhaps isn’t too odd considering the environments these coins were deposited in combined with the often harsh chemical cleanings they received at the hands of what might charitably be called amateurs. 

That's a good point. Also, now that I think about it, I don't know why anyone would bother to paint a (common?) seemingly worn (or weakly struck) Byzantine trachy coin, with either silver paint or hot molten silver. I bought the coin in 2021 for $30 including shipping, from a fairly reputable dealer, therefore it seems like, the market value of the coin, was not very high. On the other hand, perhaps the owner of a small shop at a tourist site, may have spray painted the coin with silver paint, hoping to get a little bit more money for it, from a gullible tourist.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sand

[sand]

2 hours ago, Edessa said:

I know this is just another story of the old days, but at one time these Byzantine Trachy were even more underappreciated than today. The following coins came from a large lot that I had from CNG back in 1994. They worked out to $3 each. At some point I sold most of them at some exorbitant markup, like $6 to $10 each.

 

I like hearing stories of the good old days, even though it reminds me of all of the bargains that I missed, back when seemingly fewer people collected certain types of coins, such as trachy coins, and Spanish colonial cob coins. Here's a trachy story, from not so long ago. A year or 2 years or 3 years ago, I was in a local coin shop. They had a box of approximately 100 bronze trachy coins, perhaps Byzantine, or perhaps Bulgarian, for something like $1 each, or maybe it was $5 each, or maybe it was $10 each. Back then, I was not as knowledgeable about Byzantine trachy coins, but I was collecting them. I looked at the coins, but all of the coins, looked like coins, which I already had, at least to my inexperienced eye. If I remember correctly, most of the coins had a thin brown patina. A few weeks ago, I thought about those trachy coins. I went back to the local coin shop, and I asked about the trachy coins. They said, that they had sold all of those trachy coins. That's too bad. I would have liked to look at those trachy coins again, now that I know more about trachy coins.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sand

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I remember when Classical Cash had them in bulk for $1.50 each.  The bag I have are probably Bulgarian imitations and Latin types - smaller, but not tiny. They weren't as exciting as the Roman asses/as-sized provincials.  I bought many more of those.

I should poke around for the Jon Subak one sometime. I'm pretty sure I bought it and it was pretty nice.  Jon Subak had some nice coins.  I sure wish I had the funds back then to buy that beautiful $400 Postumus double sestertius.

[Edessa]

9 hours ago, sand said:

That's a good point. Also, now that I think about it, I don't know why anyone would bother to paint a (common?) seemingly worn (or weakly struck) Byzantine trachy coin, with either silver paint or hot molten silver. I bought the coin in 2021 for $30 including shipping, from a fairly reputable dealer, therefore it seems like, the market value of the coin, was not very high. On the other hand, perhaps the owner of a small shop at a tourist site, may have spray painted the coin with silver paint, hoping to get a little bit more money for it, from a gullible tourist.

In the mid-1990's I was working for an oil company in Kuwait. I became friends with an Iraqi gentleman who ran a small antique/tourist shop in the souk and would spend hours in his shop drinking tea and discussing antiquities of all types. Bronze and lead copies of classical ancient coins were everywhere in the souk and Friday Market. None of them could be called deceptive to anyone with just a little experience. He sold quite a few of these types himself, along with many generally low-grade authentic coins. With some frequency people of many different appearances would come into the shop with examples of these very same copies which they had covered in silver paint from the hardware store and try to pawn them off as real silver antiques. Occasionally they would get quite irate that their coins were "real" even when we showed them identical lead copies from his display case. But most of the time the entire discussion was conducted over tea as a comedy. They knew their coins were fake, we knew their coins were fake, but everyone went through the pleasantries as if they were the victims of a fraudulent seller and it was just too bad that they had been sold bad fakes.

[CPK]

Cool coin. I have yet to branch out much into Byzantine coins - although I do find the history interesting.

[seth77]

12th century Constantinople trachea are the regular introduction everyone has with the coin type. But for me, the real thrill with them starts a bit later, after 1204. It grows steadily around 1220-1260 and then has a huge glow around 1315 or so. Nowadays I like the 'religious types' a lot - they are a distinct series of anonymous coinage, late in the 'Latin Empire' history, ca. 1240, but possibly not even 'Latin' coinage at all but rather eastern Balkan-Black Sea 'Bulgarian' coinage, possibly related to the uptick in the discussion that went back and forth about the reunification of churches in the 1230s to the 1240s, to which both Latin Constantinople and Ivan II Asen were part of.

This one has two of the rarer figures: Saint Nicholas and John the Baptist:

 

Another interest is the likely Asian coinage of the Palaiologoi, one example being this Cherub type for Michael VIII, probably at Magnesia, before Andronikos II (ca. 1270-2):

 

They might not be as straight forward as the Constantinople types of the 1100s, but historically they are extremely interesting.

[Simon]

The Alexius coin reform was inexpensive way to start a brand-new exciting series. A new design without using more metal. 

As for the silvering, the silvered versions are out there , far scarcer than the ones without but they do exist. Here is one of the earliest in the series, I try not to touch it afraid to to lose the extra silvering.  

Alexius SBCV-1916

This one I have had the longest

John II ( Unusually heavy silver content and silvering)

 

Later the coins appear with less silver and by the time of Alexius III silver content had become at its lowest and the coins issued by the Latins had no silver content or any silvering. 

Nice coin @ambr0zie and welcome to a world of puzzles, the 12th century is easy, it is the 13th and 14th that are much more difficult to find in nice condition and much more difficult to attribute, you started the right way, if you dont understand the original examples of the coin reform the later ones don't make as much sense.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Simon