Benefactor kirispupis Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 Recently, I decided that Agathokles of Syracuse does actually belong in my Philip II, Alexander III, and the Age of the Diadochi collection, so I started looking for a good representative coin. I felt that I didn't want to pay for a tet and was perfectly fine settling for one of his nice bronzes. These being common coins, I pored through the wares for a bit before settling on this one. Sicily, Syracuse. Agathokles Period 4, circa 295 BCE Æ Litra 23mm, 8.35 gm, 1h ΣΩTEIΡA, head of Artemis Soteria right, wearing triple-pendant earring and necklace, quiver over shoulder / AΓAΘOKΛEOΣ BAΣIΛEOS, winged thunderbolt. Calciati II pg. 279, 142/25; SNG ANS 708; Favorito 34 However, literally the day after I put the order for that one in, I noticed this one for a very reasonable price. What drew me in is how it appears the first part of Agathokles' name was scratched out, I presume in antiquity. Agathokles 317 -289 BCE Syracuse Sicily Ae Trias 22.1mm, 8.4gms Obv: SOTEIPA; Draped bust of Artemis Soteira right with quiver over shoulder Rev: AG AThOKLEOS BASILIEWS; Winged thunderbolt SNG ANS 708 First of all, I'd appreciate someone just confirming my sanity that indeed the first five letters of his name are defaced. Based on wear elsewhere on the coin, it certainly looks intentional. My guess is someone didn't like Agathokles and took it out on this coin. He certainly earned his share of enemies. How much emotion must have gone through this coin! I could write an entire book/movie just on this one piece. Naturally, I purchased it immediately, even though it remains the only coin where I have two of the exact same type. Lets see some of your defaced coins! 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Here's a provincial AE from Laodicea at Mare. Note that the reverse of Tyche is scratched in a way that looks intentional. Ancient scratches as well, not modern. Who in the reign of Antoninus Pius would have experienced this? Edited June 20, 2023 by Ancient Coin Hunter 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, kirispupis said: Recently, I decided that Agathokles of Syracuse does actually belong in my Philip II, Alexander III, and the Age of the Diadochi collection, so I started looking for a good representative coin. I felt that I didn't want to pay for a tet and was perfectly fine settling for one of his nice bronzes. These being common coins, I pored through the wares for a bit before settling on this one. Sicily, Syracuse. Agathokles Period 4, circa 295 BCE Æ Litra 23mm, 8.35 gm, 1h ΣΩTEIΡA, head of Artemis Soteria right, wearing triple-pendant earring and necklace, quiver over shoulder / AΓAΘOKΛEOΣ BAΣIΛEOS, winged thunderbolt. Calciati II pg. 279, 142/25; SNG ANS 708; Favorito 34 However, literally the day after I put the order for that one in, I noticed this one for a very reasonable price. What drew me in is how it appears the first part of Agathokles' name was scratched out, I presume in antiquity. Agathokles 317 -289 BCE Syracuse Sicily Ae Trias 22.1mm, 8.4gms Obv: SOTEIPA; Draped bust of Artemis Soteira right with quiver over shoulder Rev: AG AThOKLEOS BASILIEWS; Winged thunderbolt SNG ANS 708 First of all, I'd appreciate someone just confirming my sanity that indeed the first five letters of his name are defaced. Based on wear elsewhere on the coin, it certainly looks intentional. My guess is someone didn't like Agathokles and took it out on this coin. He certainly earned his share of enemies. How much emotion must have gone through this coin! I could write an entire book/movie just on this one piece. Naturally, I purchased it immediately, even though it remains the only coin where I have two of the exact same type. Lets see some of your defaced coins! I think that is some corrosion and deposits occurring on the part of the name where the letters are weak. If they were removed I would expect to see scratches or signs of physicals removal. Also, it doesn't make sense that only part of the name would be removed or defaced instead of the entire name. Interesting coin. Edited June 20, 2023 by robinjojo 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted June 20, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 ...idk...i think you need to put the bong down for a while..:P...... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svessien Posted June 20, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Here's my defaced coin. It's not a fouree. I believe it's a result from a "damnatio memoriae" decree. Pescennius Niger, 193–194 AD Denarius, Antiochia 193 AD. Damnatio Memoriae? Obverse; IMP CAES C PESCE NIGER IVST, Laureate head right. Reverse: MINER VICTRIS, Minerva standing facing, headleft, holding Victory and spear. Reference: RIC 60, RCV 6117, BMCRE 309 Sixe: 18 mm. Weight: 3.57 g. Conservation: Scratches, flan damage: cleaned - Rare. "The battle of Issus took place on 31 March 194, and Pescennius Niger was defeated. According to the historian Cassius Dio, 20,000 people were massacred. Pescennius tried to flee to his ally, the Parthian king Vologases V, but he was intercepted by the soldiers of Severus before he could cross the Euphrates. His reign had lasted less than one year. He was killed and his head was sent to Byzantium in order to induce the defenders to surrender. Severus punished Pescennius' adherents and sent his family into exile. The Senate convened and pronounced a damnatio memoriae." Edited June 20, 2023 by Svessien 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted June 20, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 I've seen quite a few of his coins and not noticed one intentionally defaced yet though they should have been. One of Machiavelli's criminal posterboys. @kirispupis what made you decide he was actually good for part of the collection? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, Deinomenid said: I've seen quite a few of his coins and not noticed one intentionally defaced yet though they should have been. One of Machiavelli's criminal posterboys. @kirispupis what made you decide he was actually good for part of the collection? Well...since you asked... 🙂 The primary qualifier for whether someone should be in my Philip II, Alexander III, and the Age of the Diadochi collection is they need to have one of the following: a) Had direct interaction with Philip II or Alexander III b) Had direct interaction with three other members of the collection Agathokles of Syracuse AFAIK had no direct interaction with either Philip or Alexander. However, he did interact with several of the Diadochi in ways I wasn't previously aware. 1) He betrayed and killed Ophellas near Kyrene 2) He defeated Kassander's forces on Korkyra and took the island for himself 3) His daughter married Pyrrhos of Epeiros, and then famously left him for his arch-rival Demetrios I Poliorketes So, Agathokles certainly qualified... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennos Posted June 20, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 20, 2023 I also doubt that the name was scratched out in antiquity but it's true that Agathocles considered himself king of Western Greece like the diadochs. good choice for the coins 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 hours ago, robinjojo said: I think that is some corrosion and deposits occurring on the part of the name where the letters are weak. If they were removed I would expect to see scratches or signs of physicals removal. Also, it doesn't make sense that only part of the name would be removed or defaced instead of the entire name. Interesting coin. Thanks! I also thought about why only part of the name would be defaced. I can certainly see why Artemis wasn't touched. Definitely wouldn't want to mess with her. I don't have a great answer, but I did find the following thanks to Google Translate: ΚΛΕΟΣ = glory, fame The plot thickens... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted June 20, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 Either section could have been removed for similar effect. Agathokles means good glory or brave glory. Family had odd names (to me.) His brother's name means something like Not the Man and his potter father, well he was called Karkinos, which was also the name of a giant crab that attacked Herakles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted June 20, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted June 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, Deinomenid said: Either section could have been removed for similar effect. Agathokles means good glory or brave glory. Family had odd names (to me.) His brother's name means something like Not the Man and his potter father, well he was called Karkinos, which was also the name of a giant crab that attacked Herakles. Interesting, but I assume whoever did this had a particular message in mind and isn't around any more to elaborate. So far, it seems I may be the only one who thinks it was defaced intentionally in antiquity. 😞 Weird, because to me it looks obvious...but then I am a novelist... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Julius Posted June 21, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Square nail hole Circle nail hole (coin show signs of being pried off something) Someone angry or bored in ancient times… Modern “defacement” by a museum (lacquer and numbering) Modern numbers and gouges… have always wondered what this was about… Edited June 21, 2023 by Orange Julius 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordoba Posted June 21, 2023 · Member Share Posted June 21, 2023 Another Agathokles, but from bactria. This was apparently pierced with a nail/suspension loop in antiquity Greco-Baktrian Kingdom. Agathokles, circa 185-180 BC. Tetradrachm (Silver, 31 mm, 16.65 g, 12 h) Obv: Diademed bust of Euthydemos I to right. ΕΥΘΥΔΗΜΟΥ Θ[ΕΟΥ] Rev: Herakles seated left on rock, holding club set on rocks and leaning left on rocky seat, in inner right field monogram. ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΟΝΤΟΣ ΑΓΑΘΟΚΛΕΟΥΣ ΔΙΚΑΙΟΥ Reference: Bopearachchi 16B; HGC 12, 87; MIG Type 145a; SNG ANS 261; Glenn, Euthydemos Group I, 192 (O33/R101, this coin); Holt, Lost World of the Golden King, p. 203, end note 75 (this coin). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellinore Posted June 21, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2023 Not really a coin from antiquity, but still 700 years old. Such a lovely type, showing two lions adossed under the sun. These were issued by Al-Salih Salih I (1312-1364), the ruler of the Artuqids of Mardin, a Turkish dynasty in Anatolia whom you might know from its expressive large pictorial copper coins. There are two variants, one like this one, not my coin but borrowed from Zeno because it's the clearest depiction of the scene. (Zeno 46196, dated 736 AH = 1335/6 AD, 24mm, 3.41g) The other variation shows the lions with their tails entwined - I didn't find a clear enough example for you. But there's mine: Like someone aptly commented when I posted this coin on Zeno: "The second lion was shot." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted June 21, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Orange Julius said: Modern numbers and gouges… have always wondered what this was about… That's an interesting date. In Britain, it was around that time a lot of coins were defaced in support of the Jacobite rising. As you can see by my coin below, they weren't left in spendable condition, so perhaps it didn't matter that it had Trajan on the obverse. People seemed to carry coins around for all sorts of reasons other than as money - convict tokens, love tokens, touch pieces etc.George II Halfpenny, 1729-1754, filed down and engraved ‘Down with the Rump’ 1745-1752Tower. Bronze, 28mm, 5.18g (the halfpenny from 1729 was 28mm and 9.9g) (S 3719). The Rump Parliament was what was left after it was purged of Charles I sympathisers in 1648. The motto 'Down with the rump', sometimes preceded by 'God bless PC' (Bonnie Prince Charlie, grandson of James II) was used on items produced after the Jacobite rising of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden in 1746 (the culmination of the rising and the last pitched battle fought in Britain). The slogan was popular amongst Prince Charlie's supporters, the rump being a derogatory term for the Hanoverian establishment. In that scenario, '1745' would refer to the Jacobite rising of 1745, and would likely have been added in the years afterwards. By then it could've been in support of all sorts of things, least of which was a return of the Stuarts. Edited June 21, 2023 by John Conduitt 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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