Orichalcum Hyperpyron of John III?

[KenDorney]

Apologies if this topic has come up before.  About 5 years ago an unusual hoard of John III base metal hyperpyra came to market.  I will let you follow this link for your opinions:

https://www.romanumismatics.com/article_detail?article_id=2&lang=en&tag=Byzantine

Barry Murphy has condemned these but when asked hasn't responded as to why.  I cant argue with either Murphy or Bendall; they have more knowledge and experience than I have.  I have seen a couple of these which pre-date the hoard by about 10 years, but that may not mean much.  Does anyone have experience with them or opinions?

[Glebe]

Hi Ken,

As you have noticed these types have been around for quite a while and in fact they were discussed at length on the Forum Byzantine site some time ago.

For some of this discussion see here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53639.msg332419#msg332419

Note that Val Marchev of Orthodox Coins and CLBC condemned these types from the start.

Note also that these types also come with all sorts of coatings quite different from the brassy types, but Bendall was seemingly unaware of these when he analysed his so-called hoard.

Ross G.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Glebe

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

There was a numisforum thread a while back and I shared some of the more egregious examples there. In my opinion, these are fake.

[theotokevoithi]

This is a matter of what we consider fake. These are jewerly items from the Balcans, used as a pendant (opinion).The motif of john iii is the most common and they used to wear these pendants for religious reasons and to state their byzantine-orthodox origin after the conquest by Venetians-Francs-Genovese crusaders.

These are called ''KONSTANTINATA - AISELINATA'' and people considered that they represent st Constantine and st Helen. We use to take them to the orthodox church in thursday of easter for religious reasons.

 

The attachment is the Konstantinato my mother received as a gift in her mariage in 1976 (silver). We still do it and it is the same motif of vatatzes hyperpyron. Some are beautiful, but it is not a coin now. This is happening from 13 century till now.

[theotokevoithi]

I have read the articles concerning the whole situation.

Numismatists trapped between taxonomy and coin pricing, using internet photos !!!

A survey in situ and historical sociological analysis is more useful, in a generally unresearched topic (huge variety of byzantine coins, aesthetic uniqueness).

Thank you for your reactions, keep collecting.