theotokevoithi

The coins are not in a rush, they are waiting 1000 years patiently. :)

Concave coins are very difficult to be photographed (even lighting of the surface). If we must accept the use of software editing, Photoscape is the simplest freeware solution i think. But if we accept software editing , we must accept artificial toning too. It is like removing wrinkles from a photo using photoshop. The danger is to buy coins that are totally different than the photo of the seller, but it can be considered a form of art and a collector must play with his coins (hobby). A post of unedited photo of a coin and the software edited photo of the same coin is a good idea.

A leaved cross on a christian ruler s coin, that can be tolerated by muslims (either the turks of anatolia or the arabs of spain). More an artwork than a religious symbol, in order to ensure everyone is happy !!! That s the joy of revolutionary assumptions, regardless of the degree of certainty !!!!

''Leaved cross'' motif https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/1856031

It is a ''look alike'' cutting method, as this latin rulers trachy (?). Maybe it was reduced 2-3 centuries later to produce a lower base metal denomination or for religious - veneration practices or for creating a pendant

Simon ''Short circulation of some issues ( E.g. Alexius DOC 41) or limited need that would be the post Latin Conquest 1204 world. Look at the small module trachea, they were basically the same weight. The post 1204 issues were circulating in turkey, not Greece. They did not circulate there before; it was almost a reminder to the Constantinople refugees they were still Eastern Roman. '' ------------------------------------------------------- Exactly, they used coinage as a reminder of byzantine origin and with the hope to reestablish the empire. Every feudal lord (especially the orthodox christians) wanted the role of the continuator of E.R.E. They made wars for this (against each other and against the latins). For balcans my opinion is that maybe there was a withdrawal of these copper issues to be melted and produce the crusader principalities denier tournois. The silvered tetartera was of low mintage and regional use.(low number and no imitations-silver costs). Keep up the good work.

A decent denarius, which belongs to the historical context of roman civil unrest period. Botanics is closely related to numismatics, using advanced taxonomy methods in order to recognise the plants based on their characteristics. It was common for botanists during their expeditions to record the history of a place and the people.

My opinion on the cross type of the Nicaean tetarteron Simon posted : -Great coin (artistic value) -The type of the cross in my opinion is influenced by western influenced GIGLIATO TYPE COIN We have testaments from 1090 refering to chichata / chiata / cherata from the island of Patmos. The island of Chios (neighbouring to Patmos) must have had a Genovese colonial influence earlier than we believe, maybe a trade colony. They probably produced imitative coins there before the genovese Maona company which followed. Nicaean Magnesia is in the opposite asian shore. Rhodes island who produced gigliata later is neighbouring too. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The existing numismatic theory (on the name of the coins) is that chichata / chiata / cherata of the testaments are Nicephorus iii histamena which were of silver content in reality and not gold or decent electrum. I write this to emphasize that in a so difficult matter of coin attribution of the period, every opinion is needed and is respected. No one knows but in the future people like Simon will probably find a version close to the truth. A book can be corrected in future, it is a base for others to work on a matter.

It is attractive because it survived almost in one piece. An assarion or a trachy? The reverse side (someone standing) ? Waiting to be recognised.

On the naming tetarteron (leaving aside the earlier small gold issue with same name) : Tetarteron : One of Four parts Tessera : (Four) The Glass Tesserae for the religious mosaics was 1.5 grams each Generally speaking : a little piece of something solid metallic, stone, glass etc In a heraldic book of 1600-1700 ( passage posted here earlier) the first coronation lead ''tetarteron'' of Alexius i, Irene and John ii is mentioned as SFRAGIDION = Stamp . In Greek speaking byzantine areas, the lowest coin of base metal was always called OVOLOS = Obol by the population. A comment on the subject : After 1204 it was the beginning of feudalism in greece and balcans. The latins changed the social system, according to the west. I consider every ruler feudal lord of a castle and surrounding area and not official state. So why a John iii tetarteron is official and a Leon Sgouros tetarteron not ? John iii was a big feudal lord and Leon Sgouros a small feudal lord.

Your thinking helps. Everyone, like J.Baker, needs for his book some solid assumptions in order to create a book structure. With so many numismatic uncertainties he had to make decisions and explain things. His priority was the official minting and simple assumptions are better than complex assumptions. --For the ''OF UNOFFICIAL MINTING'' trachea we talk for Bulgarians / Magnates of thrace / Latins. Even the Italian Normans imitated byzantine scyphate coinage earlier. (I underline that then people used to self - define by their religion (primary) and language and not by their ethnicity) --For the ''OF UNOFFICIAL MINTING'' tetartera, among many others, John iii Vatatzis is considered a serious candidate. (In his age he was the last hope of the ROMAIOI, he became an orthodox saint, he adopted like the Lascarids the Hellenic self identification, he had strong foothold in greece and balcans, he incited revolts of the populations against everyone else and his hyperpyron circulated widely. The motif of his hyperpyron is still used for modern religious pendants in Greece.) (I also mention that the Venetians were part of the byzantine empire until 8-9 th century, sharing the same artistic eastern byzantine principles even in their coins) Many candidates for unofficial coinage. Archaeology and organised taxonomy of the finds will decide, we have no detailed historical sources.

Tetartera finds (local knowledge) https://books.openedition.org/efa/8292 Limnes Hoard / Argolis 9 tetartera (english) https://books.openedition.org/efa/8277 Acronauplia Hoard / Argolis 18 imitative tetartera (translate points 8-18 from greek to english) In point 17 Galani proposes Leon Sgouros (despotis, married daughter of Alexius iii) , as the creator of the imitative tetartera somewhere in Nauplion, Argos, Corinth, Athens. The story of the ''saronic gulf group'' tetarteron type is well known. All of these are still opinions.

Great mission, these tetartera. The coin clipping, by state authority, started by Andronicus I Comnenus but not for producing tetartera. He clipped hundreds of Byzantine electrum trachea of John II and Manuel I which have had their original weight cut approximately in half through hammering and clipping. The size technically remained the same , in order to cheat the receptors. This kind of emperor was Andronicus i . https://www.academia.edu/37338322/Andronicus_Comnenuss_Invasion_Money_of_1181_1182

I agree, there are multiple opinions. - There is a speculation that the latin rulers used / permitted mobile private mints operated by the Venetians (technical knowledge). Continuing the tradition of military mints in an age of war. - The Bulgarians and the Magnates (x byzantine aristocracy) also minted imitative issues for local use and soldier payment reasons. The soldier payment was usually in billon trachea. Theory for tetarteron circulation in south greece (1204-1260) : There is always the possibility that the imitative tetartera (local private minting) of the population were recalled, collected and melted to produce the crusader principalities billon denier tournois in order to establish latin feudalism. The silver was given by the latin feudal lords. If this is the case, it explains why we cant find them. There was a possible exchange : Give us the copper tetartera to get the new billon denier for use. Unforunately, i dont know contemporary written sources for these details. My example is a characterised small module latin trachy : But i believe it was a reduced by cutting large module trachy to be used as a tetarteron (1/4) in balcans or greece. The rest of the coin was remelted to produce more tetartera (they did not mind for the silver content of the trachea : nonexisted in this period). The private mints used everything they could find. A theory. Good luck, the tetartera are difficult collecting items (we cant find them all, we don t know all the produced types). Their pricing should be higher than let s say john iii s hyperpyron or michael viii s hyperpyron, historically thinking.

A mystery (space for research). Tetartera circulated widely in south greece. After 1204 it is believed that there was a mint in south greece producing ''imitative'' tetartera. It was the lack of low value coinage after the collapse ? My thought is that these ''imitative'' tetartera circulated widely until the denier tournois of the crusader principalities. Their ''imitative'' character leaves little space for standardised weight. Comment : ''St Constantine was used by Alexius III in his trachea, more than likely the most common of the 12th century trachea. He was a Saint in the Orthodox Christianity but not in the Latin Catholic faith. So would the Latins make a St. Constantine coin?'' They circulated for orthodox people under the latins, they did that to establish their authority. The latin peter and paul trachea, represent st paul (orthodoxy) and st peter (catholicism) embracing. (We are one - christians, let us govern you !!) Keep researching.