Seleucid vs Ptolemaic coins, who did it better?

[ComicMan]

Just watched a very interesting video about Seleucid coinage: 

 

I personally don't have any coins from them, and only one Ptolemaic coin. Does anyone here collect coins from these Hellenistic dynasties? Which one do you prefer? I would love to get into some nice tets from this period, especially have my eyes on Demitrius I Soter, and the early Ptolemies and Seleucids.

My coin, certainly a chunky one:

Ptolemaic Kingdom. Ptolemy II Philadelphos. 285-246 BC. AE Diobol (14.78 gm, 29mm). Alexandreia mint. Series 2F. Struck circa 275/4-260s BC. Obv.: diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right. Rev.: eagle with open wings standing left on thunderbolt; monogram above shield to left, O between legs. CPE B177; Svoronos 586; SNG Copenhagen 123. aVF.

[ComicMan]

Really liking this one on Ma-Shops, might make that my first Ptolemaic tet. Any opinions here from people who collect Hellenistic coins?

[Ryro]

I gotta go with Seleucids overall. Just a more diverse amount of styles and types of coins. But enjoy them both.

A few Seleucids 

And some Ptolemaic 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Ryro

[ComicMan]

18 minutes ago, Ryro said:

I gotta go with Seleucids overall. Just a more diverse amount of styles and types of coins. But enjoy them both.

A few Seleucids 

And some Ptolemaic 

 

Yeah those Ptolemaic monarch sure did love their eagles while the Seleucids had many symbols, anchor, horse, elephant, etc.

 

Really like the first Seleucid coin that you posted, that is a badass helmet and a nice reverse.

[ValiantKnight]

My favorite out of all my Ptolemaic coins, a massive 93-gram octobol.

Ptolemy III Euergetes, Ptolemaic Kingdom
AE octobol
Obv: Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right
Rev: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ΠTOΛEMAIOY, eagle with open wings standing left on thunderbolt, head right; E between legs
Mint: Alexandria
Date: 246-222 BC
Ref: Svoronos 446; SNG Copenhagen 142 (Ptolemy II); Lorber series 4
Size: 48 mm, 93 gm

[Curtisimo]

My favorite Ptolemaic:

My favorite Seleucid:

Overall I think the variety in the design of Seleucid coins make them more interesting from a historical perspective. At the same time some of the giant bronze denominations are hard to beat for pure in-hand satisfaction. I think both are great collecting areas.

 

[Cordoba]

I still prefer bactrian tetradrachms, but I like seleucid coins better than ptolemaic ones. There are ptolemaic coins I would want, like Ptolemy I's elephant headdress coin, but overall I prefer the seleucid coin designs. There's a lot more variety in seleucid coinage. The lower weight and size of ptolemaic tetradrachms are also a bit of a downside for me. From what I've seen ptolemaic coins are kinda expensive too.

This is my favorite seleucid coin; I really like the realistic high relief portrait. Has a pretty rare monogram combination too.

Seleukid Empire, Antiochos III Megas, 222-187 BC. Tetradrachm (Silver, 27 mm, 17.06 g, 12 h), Soli.

Obv: Diademed head of Antiochos III to right.

Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ - ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ Apollo seated left on omphalos, holding arrow in his right hand and leaning with his left on his bow; to left, ΣA above head of Athena to left; to right, ΣE.

Reference: SC 1019.2a; Houghton, Royal, Group C, 17–8 (A3/P5); HGC 9, 20; SNG Spaer 654 (same dies).

Provenance: From the Kalevala Collection.

[Severus Alexander]

Cookie Monster says Ptolemaic because of the yummy octobols!!

(But I gotta agree with the other posters that there's a more appealing variety in Seleukid coinage.  Better portraits too... here's my Demetrios I tet:

And my Antiochos I drachm:

[Edessa]

Seleucid Empire. Antiochus VI Dionysos, 144-142 BC. Æ Serrate Unit (23mm, 7.50g, 1h). Antioch mint. Obv: Radiate head right. Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ / ΕΠΙΦΑ[ΝΟΥΣ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΥ]; Elephant advancing left; in right field, Σ(TA above palm branch]. Ref: SC 2006b; HGC 9, 1043. Very Fine, wonderful brown tone. Ex Morton & Eden Sale 115, 2022, Lot 146 (part of). Sold with original collector's ticket and from the duplicates of the British Museum. Ex Naville Numis 75 (31 Jul 2022), Lot 148.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

I have a few Ptolemaics but no Seleucids. I agree that the range of types and styles is somewhat broader for the Seleucids, you get a bit bored with the image of Ptolemy Soter on tets and Zeus-Ammon on the bronze. But here's my 80 gram cookie...more like Pepperidge farm than Chips Ahoy.

 

[DonnaML]

On the whole, I prefer the Seleucid to the Ptolemaic tetradrachms for the reason that others have mentioned -- namely, that so many of the latter look almost exactly alike, with the eagle on the reverse and the portrait of Ptolemy I on the obverse no matter who issued the coin. Collecting the series would feel too much like collecting Morgan silver dollars to me! The problem with the Seleucid tets is that nice examples have become extremely expensive. 

TLDR, I have only one of each:

Egypt, Ptolemaic Kingdom, Ptolemy VI Philometor [“Mother-loving”] (First reign, 180-164 BCE), AR Tetradrachm ca.180-170 BCE, Alexandria Mint. Obv. Diademed head of Ptolemy I right, wearing aegis / Rev. Eagle with closed wings standing left on thunderbolt, ΠTOΛEMAIOY on left, BAΣIΛEΩΣ on right. Seaby 7895 [Sear, David, Greek Coins & their Values, Vol. II: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Svoronos 1489 (ill. Pl. 51a, Nos. 1-5) [Svoronos, J.N., Ta Nomismata tou Kratous ton Ptolemaion  (Athens, 1904-08)] (see https://www.coin.com/images/dr/svoronos/svc001p209t.html [incorrectly attributed to Ptolemy VIII]); SNG Copenhagen 262-268 [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Copenhagen, The Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, Danish National Museum, Part 40: Egypt: The Ptolemies (Copenhagen 1977)]; BMC 6 Ptolemaic Egypt 3 (p. 100) (ill. Pl. XXIV No. 5) [Poole, R.S., A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 6, Ptolemaic Kings of Egypt (London, 1883)]. 26 mm., 12.14 g.

Syria, Seleucid Empire, Antiochos VIII Epiphanes (Grypon) Tetradrachm, 109-96 BCE Antioch Mint. Obv. Diademed head of Antiochos VIII right / Rev. Zeus Nikephoros seated left on high-backed throne, holding Nike on outstretched right hand and scepter in left; to outer left, E/P monogram above A [Antioch]; ΔI monogram below throne; BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ANTIOXOY EΠIΦANOYΣ; all within laurel wreath. Seleucid Coins [SC] Pt. 2, 2309; Seleucid Coins Online [same] (see http://numismatics.org/sco/id/sc.1.2309 ); Seaby 7145 (ill.) [Sear, David, Greek Coins & their Values, Vol. II: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Hoover HGC 9, 1200 [Hoover, Oliver, Handbook of Syrian Coins, Royal and Civic Issues, Fourth to First Centuries BC, The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 9 (2009)]; Newell SMA 405 [Newell, E.T., The Seleucid Mint of Antioch (1918)], SNG Israel 2554-55 [Spaer, A.  &  A. Houghton, Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Israel I, The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins (London, 1998)]; BMC 4 Seleucid Syria 2 (p. 98) (ill. Pl. XXVI, No. 3) [erroneously attributed to Antiochos XI] [Gardner, P., A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 4, The Seleucid Kings of Syria (London, 1878)].  27 mm., 16.2 g.

 

[kapphnwn]

Initially I would have to give the nod to the Ptolemies. The images of Alexander III and Ptolemy I are superb. However if the term "slow and steady wins the race" has any validity the Seleukids continued with refining their portrait styles coming up with some impressive examples. 

Tetradrachm of Antiochos II Theos Sardes 261-246 BC Obv Diademed head of an elderly Antiochos I Rv Apollo seated left on omphalos holding arrow in right hand and resting on bow with his left. SC 518b HGC 236f WSM 1386 17.05  grms 28 mm Photo by W. HansenThe portrait on this coin depicts an older man with a care worn face. You can almost tell that this guy has seen a lot, with much of it not pretty.  The depiction of sagging flesh along the jaw line gives the image a realism not often seen on coin portraits. However the contrast of this tough but haggard face and the full head of curly hair is quite stark.