Learning about antiquities collecting

[savitale]

I am considering venturing in the field of antiquities collecting but I understand that it is a bit of a minefield. What would the more experienced folks suggest that one do when starting out? At the current time my area of interest is in Greek painted ceramics, from the Mycenaean period through the Classical era.

 

[kevikens]

Unless you live in Greece I don't think you will have much success in actually acquiring antiquities like this. There are other areas where antiquities can be gotten without running afoul of paper work regulations, licensing and shipping problems. 

[Deinomenid]

I'm not sure where you are based or what your budget is but HJ Berk (Chicago)  regularly sell these - there are  a number in their current sale. Sotheby's and Christie's run regular auctions too, and often display large numbers of their  items beforehand in  London or NYC depending on the sale. You can also  find a number of stores just selling rather than auctioning in London so presumably  many other places.

[DonnaML]

5 hours ago, kevikens said:

Unless you live in Greece I don't think you will have much success in actually acquiring antiquities like this. There are other areas where antiquities can be gotten without running afoul of paper work regulations, licensing and shipping problems. 

This is not at all accurate. There are many, many painted ancient Greek vases from the Classical and Hellenistic periods -- and vases originating in the Greek colonies in South Italy, or manufactured in Attica for export and found in Italy (where they were very popular among the Etruscans), or elsewhere  -- for sale from reputable antiquities dealers. I emphasize "reputable," hopefully with genuine provenance showing that they were imported from Greece or Italy or Turkey long before the restrictions on such imports came into effect.

You're not going to find much in the way of Mycenaean vases, though, not even in museums!

The most important advice, of course, is: don't buy from Ebay! The percentage of fakes isn't as high as it is for ancient Egyptian artifacts there, but it's still very substantial. I won't attempt to provide a list of reputable retail dealers/galleries or auction houses that sell Greek vases. Although Sothebys always used to be known as one of the latter (and may still be), and here's a link to the "Greek" page at a New York gallery where I've purchased more than one Attic lekythos: http://www.hixenbaugh.net/gallery/gallery.cfm?category=Greek Art. Here are a couple of additional links to galleries in the UK where I've purchased Greek antiquities: https://www.antiquities.co.uk/culture/ancient-greek/?_product_categories=ancient-pottery ; https://heliosgallery.com/antiquities/catalogues/greek-antiquities/ . And one in Montreal: https://medusa-art.com/antiquities-gallery.html?civilization=3 .

Here's an excerpt from my thread in the Antiquities forum about my collection -- a post about my Attic lekythoi and other Greek & South Italian vases: https://www.numisforums.com/topic/199-a-thread-for-my-antiquities/#comment-3240 :

 

An Attic black-figure lekythos from ca. 525-500 BCE, four warriors in combat; on shoulder, two hounds facing each other. 4" H x 2" W at widest part. Purchased 03/15/1986, Royal Athena Galleries, NYC:






Another Attic Black-figure Lekythos, ca. 525-500 BCE, pygmies hunting rooster (or rooster hunting pygmies), 3 1/2" (8.9 cm) high, purchased 12.17.2019, Hixenbaugh Ancient Art, NYC:

An Athenian horse departing for parts unknown with its rider and his attendants in about 525-500 BCE, as shown on this Attic black-figure lekythos (4 1/4", 10.8 cm. high), manufactured for export in the Kerameikos (pottery) district, Athens. Purchased 12.17.2019, Hixenbaugh Ancient Art, NYC.












Note the hound chasing a hare on the shoulder, putting the vase in the Hound and Hare Group of Attic lekythoi. See https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG58829, explaining that the term refers to "a group of Athenian black-figure vase-painters whose names are unknown who produced vases with a similar style of drawing (mostly lekythoi). Beazley (following Haspels ABL) named them the Hound and Hare group because of the unusual subject (a hound pursuing a hare) decorating the shoulder. A few vases have been attributed to this group on the basis of style." For lekythoi like this one, the Hound and Hare Group is usually considered a subset of the Little Lion Class because of its shape, and the general presence of animals on the shoulder: see https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG59217.

The three Attic lekythoi together:

Corinthian aryballos, ca. 600 BCE, rooster and swan, 62 mm. H x 56 mm. W at widest point, purchased 12/16/2019, Ancient & Oriental (antiquities.co.uk, Christopher Martin):





A miniature Apulian net lekythos, with a second photo giving an idea of its size, purchased at Royal Athena, NYC.

South Italy, Apulian red-figure stemless cup with two handles; on either side of body, female head (Lady of Fashion), wearing sakkos [cloth hair covering], with large flower, stephane, earrings, necklace; ca. 350-325 BCE. 2 ½” (64 mm.) H x 3 ¾” (95 mm.) D x 5 ¾” (146 mm) W. Purchased 3/6/1993, Royal Athena Galleries, NYC.





 

An Apulian (South Italian) net lekythos, purchased from Harmer Rooke, NYC, 02.06.1982. 2 3/4" high.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by DonnaML

[DonnaML]

24 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

I'm not sure where you are based or what your budget is but HJ Berk (Chicago)  regularly sell these - there are  a number in their current sale. Sotheby's and Christie's run regular auctions too, and often display large numbers of their  items beforehand in  London or NYC depending on the sale. You can also  find a number of stores just selling rather than auctioning in London so presumably  many other places.

I forgot to mention HJB, which always has a substantial antiquities section in its Buy or Bid Sales. I just bought an ancient Roman oil lamp with a figure of a dolphin on it in HJB's most recent sale, as detailed in my post about it in the Antiquities forum.

[Prieure de Sion]

Roman antiquities would interest me very much. I would love to buy something sometime. But I don't know enough. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that there are even more black sheep on the market than with coins.

Any vase could be sold to me as a Roman vase. And since I don't know anything, I don't dare buy an object expensively - only for someone to say to me in the end - you idiot! - someone has cheated you big time.

If I ever buy something - I think I'll ask Donna for her opinion first 😉 

[DonnaML]

10 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Roman antiquities would interest me very much. I would love to buy something sometime. But I don't know enough. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that there are even more black sheep on the market than with coins.

Any vase could be sold to me as a Roman vase. And since I don't know anything, I don't dare buy an object expensively - only for someone to say to me in the end - you idiot! - someone has cheated you big time.

If I ever buy something - I think I'll ask Donna for her opinion first 😉 

All the places I mentioned sell Roman artifacts as well. 

You can learn a great deal about recognizing fake antiquities through perusing the many pages on the subject at Bron Lipkin's website, https://www.collector-antiquities.com/home.html . He also has his own gallery of generally inexpensive artifacts for sale.

[savitale]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I am based in the US. My inclination is to work with a dealer rather than buy directly from auction, as mistakes can be costly and I don't know what I don't know yet. It sounds like Hixenbaugh ancient Art would be a good place to start. 

It would be nice if there was something like A Collector's Guide to Ancient Art.

 

[DANTE]

A bit late to the party perhaps, but here's a link to British ADA members' shops. (Antiquities Dealers Association, a trustworthy organization). Some of the dealers mentioned in this thread are members, and some have a collecting 101 course on their site. 'Collectors Antiquities' in particular, already mentioned by @DonnaML has a lot of useful information. Maybe you'll find something useful there. Good luck!

Members' Galleries • Antiquities Dealers' Association (theada.co.uk)

 

Btw, that aryballos is a treasure, Donna!

Edited March 10, 2023 by DANTE

[savitale]

18 hours ago, DANTE said:

A bit late to the party perhaps, but here's a link to British ADA members' shops. (Antiquities Dealers Association, a trustworthy organization). Some of the dealers mentioned in this thread are members, and some have a collecting 101 course on their site. 'Collectors Antiquities' in particular, already mentioned by @DonnaML has a lot of useful information. Maybe you'll find something useful there. Good luck!

Members' Galleries • Antiquities Dealers' Association (theada.co.uk)

 

Btw, that aryballos is a treasure, Donna!

Wow, what a list! Thanks!

 

[thenickelguy]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:32 PM, DonnaML said:

The three Attic lekythoi together

Absolutely awesome display.