When shipping (and buyers fees) make collecting cost prohibitive

[Ryro]

Welly, well, well. I recently swore off N&N for sending me a 45 pound shipping amount. And when I asked if they offered anything else they said they did not (it is English post after all, and a mess). And now, I just received a $60 shipping charge on my invoice from Tauler & Fau (and they are out of S-pain in the ass)! Sadly, at 18% they are on the low end of buyers fees. Though, that too is just another nail in the coffin. I have never been asked to pay that much for shipping. Have you?

I dislike sending emails requesting that I am too cheap/poor when I am purchasing coins of value to pay what is asked for shipping (and frankly wish they houses that did would just let me pick the shipping option that works best for me), but have had to several times in the last few months due to the enormous increase I have been seeing. And yes, some have worked with me.

 

 

 

Any other auction houses that charge waaaaaay too much for shipping or buyers fees?

[kirispupis]

There are some auctions such as Solidus that I don't participate in because the shipping costs simply aren't worth it.

For most of the other auctions, I don't participate unless I feel confident I'll have a large enough haul to be worth the shipping. That sometimes means I won't bid on a lower priority coin earlier in the auction if there's only one main coin (later in the auction) I'm after.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Wow, that's terrible!  For $45, it should come in a fancy box with stellar padding!

Since I haven't participated in an auction since the 90's, I don't know.  I'm not even sure if I've ever won an auction.  They might have been all remainder lots.

There were one or two vcoins dealers with fairly high shipping.  I guess Busso Peus was the highest, but that was because one was basically stuck with DHL Express.  They were really kind about discounting an expensive coin so I can't kick too much.

 

[ambr0zie]

I mentioned a few days ago about London Ancient Coins. I am not impressed about their conversion rates (I had a small invoice, but when converting from GBP to my national currency I was charged with an extra ~8 euros. Never happens with the conversion from EUR to my currency. This might not sound like a big deal, but it was a SMALL invoice. 109 GBP including fees and PayPal tax (3,90%). If the "parity" remains, an invoice that is normal for me (~400 euros) would mean ~30 euros flushed down the toilet. Not cool. 

Furthermore, their shipping options are Royal Mail (14 GBP) and DHL (28 GBP). I heard about issues with Royal Mail so didn't want to risk, I also thought that for a 28 GBP price, DHL = DHL Express. Noooo. It's DHL Paket, a cheap and slow service that everybody else charges 15-18 euros. So another extra 10-15 euros for no reason. 

Add the fact that they decided to ignore my emails (my question was if this 28 GBP DHL is DHL Express) and the package was not exactly quickly shipped, I don't think I will buy from them the 2nd time...

Edited March 1, 2023 by ambr0zie

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Perhaps it's an EU thing?  I haven't been dinged like that for purchases (using paypal) via vcoins, converting dollars to pounds.

[ambr0zie]

Not sure, but I scratched my head a little because this kind of hidden fees bother me a lot. The pure concept of it. 
And the cherry on the cake was that they did not reply at all to my (polite) mail asking what DHL service is used. 
I found the answer myself - just an overpriced cheap service. 

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Ryro said:

Welly, well, well. I recently swore off N&N for sending me a 45 pound shipping amount. And when I asked if they offered anything else they said they did not (it is English post after all, and a mess). And now, I just received a $60 shipping charge on my invoice from Tauler & Fau (and they are out of S-pain in the ass)! Sadly, at 18% they are on the low end of buyers fees.

N&N ship from Denmark, not the UK. UK post is working again now, as long as your parcel wasn’t sent before the hack.

I think some of these auctions set lower fees and then load it on shipping, thinking people won’t check.

[John Conduitt]

36 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

I mentioned a few days ago about London Ancient Coins. I am not impressed about their conversion rates (I had a small invoice, but when converting from GBP to my national currency I was charged with an extra ~8 euros. Never happens with the conversion from EUR to my currency. This might not sound like a big deal, but it was a SMALL invoice. 109 GBP including fees and PayPal tax (3,90%). If the "parity" remains, an invoice that is normal for me (~400 euros) would mean ~30 euros flushed down the toilet. Not cool. 

Furthermore, their shipping options are Royal Mail (14 GBP) and DHL (28 GBP). I heard about issues with Royal Mail so didn't want to risk, I also thought that for a 28 GBP price, DHL = DHL Express. Noooo. It's DHL Paket, a cheap and slow service that everybody else charges 15-18 euros. So another extra 10-15 euros for no reason. 

Add the fact that they decided to ignore my emails (my question was if this 28 GBP DHL is DHL Express) and the package was not exactly quickly shipped, I don't think I will buy from them the 2nd time...

I don’t understand about the conversion rate. Don’t you just pay in GBP through Wise?

[ambr0zie]

I use PayPal. For some reason I wasn't able to activate my Wise account. Seeing the low paypal fee (3,90%) and the invoice being small, I found it irrelevant. 

What's not irrelevant was how the system applied the conversion rate from GBP to my currency. Completely different from the currency I have when converting EUR to my national currency, where everything is 1:1 with the exchange rate. 

I am not accusing them of anything. But all these 3 things bothered me. There are plenty of houses I will buy from. But not them. 

[kirispupis]

45 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

I mentioned a few days ago about London Ancient Coins. I am not impressed about their conversion rates (I had a small invoice, but when converting from GBP to my national currency I was charged with an extra ~8 euros. Never happens with the conversion from EUR to my currency. This might not sound like a big deal, but it was a SMALL invoice. 109 GBP including fees and PayPal tax (3,90%). If the "parity" remains, an invoice that is normal for me (~400 euros) would mean ~30 euros flushed down the toilet. Not cool. 

Furthermore, their shipping options are Royal Mail (14 GBP) and DHL (28 GBP). I heard about issues with Royal Mail so didn't want to risk, I also thought that for a 28 GBP price, DHL = DHL Express. Noooo. It's DHL Paket, a cheap and slow service that everybody else charges 15-18 euros. So another extra 10-15 euros for no reason. 

Add the fact that they decided to ignore my emails (my question was if this 28 GBP DHL is DHL Express) and the package was not exactly quickly shipped, I don't think I will buy from them the 2nd time...

I haven't quite had these issues with London Ancient Coins. In terms of currency conversion, I always have PayPal or my credit card do the conversion. I never trust vendors to do it. In terms of shipping, once they do ship something it's very fast.

I've been ordering from LAC for some time now. They used to be lightning fast. Orders would ship the next day and I'd have them at the end of the week. DHL still gets packages to me quickly from them, but I've noticed they take much longer to get packages out. I've also noticed email delays. I'm currently trying to get in touch with them due to a billing issue (I requested they remove a coin from my order, which they did - but they didn't refund it) and have had difficulties.

[Ryro]

16 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

N&N ship from Denmark, not the UK. UK post is working again now, as long as your parcel wasn’t sent before the hack.

I think some of these auctions set lower fees and then load it on shipping, thinking people won’t check.

Thanks for the informative response.

Lol! N&N London is out of Denmark?! Seems like misrepresentation. 

And glad to read that the UK has the shipping issues under control. We had major issues in the US a few years ago that lasted about four years. But just like a certain American idiot said about COVID, the issues just went away on there own... once he was ousted from office. 

And I agree. They are surely tagging on more than the shipping itself costs.

[ambr0zie]

 

13 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

I haven't quite had these issues with London Ancient Coins. In terms of currency conversion, I always have PayPal or my credit card do the conversion. I never trust vendors to do it. In terms of shipping, once they do ship something it's very fast.

I've been ordering from LAC for some time now. They used to be lightning fast. Orders would ship the next day and I'd have them at the end of the week. DHL still gets packages to me quickly from them, but I've noticed they take much longer to get packages out. I've also noticed email delays. I'm currently trying to get in touch with them due to a billing issue (I requested they remove a coin from my order, which they did - but they didn't refund it) and have had difficulties.

Again, I am not saying it is something intentional but my experience has been less than satisfying. 

I am using conversion from my debit card on PayPal like I always do. The conversion rate was surprising - normal rate 5.5045 (I am being charged with the National Bank exchange rate when I pay in EUR). The rate that was applied on this transaction - 5.849. For a large invoice this doesn't look good - my invoice was not large, but still. 

Regarding shipping - I paid the invoice on Saturday the 18th. They shipped on Monday the 27th. This is not a disaster, but I can't call it quick shipping. The package is still on the road, and this is not surprising at all for DHL Paket. My question for them, via email, after I paid the invoice, is what DHL service they use. If I knew it's DHL Paket, I wouldn't have paid 28 GPB for this service. 

Again, for me this is not a satisfying transaction and I don't think I will buy from them. Surely they won't get bankrupt because of me. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by ambr0zie

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, ambr0zie said:

I mentioned a few days ago about London Ancient Coins. I am not impressed about their conversion rates (I had a small invoice, but when converting from GBP to my national currency I was charged with an extra ~8 euros. Never happens with the conversion from EUR to my currency. This might not sound like a big deal, but it was a SMALL invoice. 109 GBP including fees and PayPal tax (3,90%). If the "parity" remains, an invoice that is normal for me (~400 euros) would mean ~30 euros flushed down the toilet. Not cool. 

Furthermore, their shipping options are Royal Mail (14 GBP) and DHL (28 GBP). I heard about issues with Royal Mail so didn't want to risk, I also thought that for a 28 GBP price, DHL = DHL Express. Noooo. It's DHL Paket, a cheap and slow service that everybody else charges 15-18 euros. So another extra 10-15 euros for no reason. 

Add the fact that they decided to ignore my emails (my question was if this 28 GBP DHL is DHL Express) and the package was not exactly quickly shipped, I don't think I will buy from them the 2nd time...

That's odd. LAC has always shipped to me in the USA via DHL Express for the 28 GBP fee. I would be seriously annoyed if they used DHL Packet, which I think must be the worst and slowest postal service  in Europe 

[kirispupis]

33 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

Regarding shipping - I paid the invoice on Saturday the 18th. They shipped on Monday the 27th. This is not a disaster, but I can't call it quick shipping. The package is still on the road, and this is not surprising at all for DHL Paket. My question for them, via email, after I paid the invoice, is what DHL service they use. If I knew it's DHL Paket, I wouldn't have paid 28 GPB for this service. 

FWIW, I placed my order on February 10th. They shipped the order via DHL on the 22nd and I received it on the 27th.

[ambr0zie]

Invoice: 

Not sure if this entire thing (conversion + 28 GBP for DHL Paket) is related to UK/EU but, without any personal feelings, this auction house will not remain on my list. 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by ambr0zie

[UkrainiiVityaz]

I've all but given up on Royal Mail - 10 weeks for a shipment from Scotland.  It was not cheap shipping.  Frankly now I limit the mid range purchases and hold out for larger combo purchases and pay the exorbitant fees for shipping via FEDEX - at least it arrives in about 3-4 days.

In contrast to Royal Mail - I have three parcels coming from Ukraine right now and even with all the expected disruptions due to the war - they are actually coming along really quickly through Ukrposhta - one sent Monday has already made it out of Ukraine.

[Kaleun96]

3 hours ago, Ryro said:

Any other auction houses that charge waaaaaay too much for shipping or buyers fees?

The main US auction houses are now all pretty expensive for shipping to the EU. CNG is up to $40 even for small invoices, Stacks is about $50, and Heritage has always been $80+.

Like others I avoid N&N due to their shipping costs. Solidus is fine for the EU it seems, or at least it was only 12 euro last year for me. Spanish and French auction houses can be expensive though, so I tend to check their shipping terms before bidding so I know what to expect. Unless the shipping cost is exorbitant though, I don't ask for a cheaper option as it's not always convenient for the auctioneer, e.g. if they've automated their shipping process to use a particular provider. For the US, I just have them ship it to a shipping forwarder and then sort out my own shipping.

[John Conduitt]

9 hours ago, Kaleun96 said:

The main US auction houses are now all pretty expensive for shipping to the EU. CNG is up to $40 even for small invoices, Stacks is about $50, and Heritage has always been $80+.

Yes I don't think people living in the US realise that US auction houses are often the worst. We can complain about N&N but at least they publish their rates (and by the way, they charge £35 to the UK, which is extortion given the auction is 'based' in the UK).

Heritage are a level above the rest. I don't think they even publish their charges. The have a shipping calculator on each lot, i.e. for that item only, and that's domestic only. I can't find any information about international shipping. This is particularly bad as their shipping fees are the nastiest. I bought a $230 raw coin from Heritage in 2019 (yes, i found a raw coin on Heritage) and they charged $66.60 shipping. Obviously, I don't buy lower-value coins (or any coins) from them anymore, but presumably that would indeed be nearer $80 now.

Stacks charged me $51 to ship $400 of coins, but they added $10 insurance on top. So $61. I've not bought from them since. They publish their shipping charge as $50 + a minimum insurance fee of $10 plus a $0.50 charge 'just because' = $60.50 minimum.

CNG charge $35 to the UK. That sounds more reasonable, but they ship all their coins for the UK in bulk to London first, and then send them out from there. So it takes weeks, and $35 is still far higher than the real cost, given most of it is domestic shipping.

Davissons charge a flat $40. I thought that was high, but it turns out it's not. And they don't charge buyer's fees.

As for dealers - most of them charge similar prices, although a large number won't even ship outside North America. I know it's possible to be cheaper, as Victor Clark, Warren Esty, Forvm Ancient Coins and Ken Dorney ship coins in the $100-200 range to the UK for around $15.

Indeed, I have used a freight forwarder to ship coins from 2 different US dealers (who don't ship to the UK) to me. The total cost including the cost of shipping from the dealers to the freight forwarder and including insurance was $28. Heritage are making at least $40 profit just on the shipping.

[Ryro]

3 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Yes I don't think people living in the US realise that US auction houses are often the worst. 

This is a true statement. I had no idea Heritage is charging satanic prices (66.6!).

Stacks are pricks to deal with. So no surprise there. 

CNG is one of my favs, so I'm glad they aren't too nuts for you all... though that wait time is awful. 

Ps, Tauler&Fau were great once I reached out. They simply said their carrier upped their prices and then offered 25 euro shipping registered. Two very cool coins paid for are coming my way from Spain!

[ambr0zie]

15 hours ago, DonnaML said:

LAC has always shipped to me in the USA via DHL Express for the 28 GBP fee.

What Donna said made me hope a little that the package was sent with DHL Express (although for a DHL Express shipment it was ALREADY delayed). Even if the tracking pointed me to DHL Paket, I said who knows. 

I contacted DHL. 

They confirmed it's DHL Paket. Superb!

The shipment is currently in transit to Romania, and from there it will be handed over to Romania Post

You may expect your parcel in 6 up to 8 business days.
 

So I paid 28 GBP for the cheapest and slowest shipping method. From my previous experience with DHL Paket, their estimate is always more optimistic than reality. 

Applause for London Ancient Coins

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by ambr0zie

[IanG]

I agree with everything that people say about excessive shipping fees and exchange rates but there are mitigation strategies that you can use. Most of us buy from particular auction houses or dealers quite regularly, so simply ask them to hold the coins for you until you have accumulated a sufficient number to make shipping worthwhile. My two favourite auction houses by far are Roma and Savoca and both have agreed to this arrangement. A couple of years ago Roma were at one time holding about 30 coins for me accumulated over several months. Of course, you will still have to pay for the coins shortly after the auction but it can have a significant effect in 'diluting' the average shipping charge per coin. And, as John Conduitt notes above, it is better to always use a currency transfer service like Wise rather than a bank or paypal. I sent 65 EUR to Savoca from the UK this morning. Wise gave me proper market rate and charged a mere 44p. My bank would have charged a £5 transfer fee and given me a very poor exchange rate. Using Wise saved me about £7.

[Ryro]

15 minutes ago, IanG said:

I agree with everything that people say about excessive shipping fees and exchange rates but there are mitigation strategies that you can use. Most of us buy from particular auction houses or dealers quite regularly, so simply ask them to hold the coins for you until you have accumulated a sufficient number to make shipping worthwhile. My two favourite auction houses by far are Roma and Savoca and both have agreed to this arrangement. A couple of years ago Roma were at one time holding about 30 coins for me accumulated over several months. Of course, you will still have to pay for the coins shortly after the auction but it can have a significant effect in 'diluting' the average shipping charge per coin. And, as John Conduitt notes above, it is better to always use a currency transfer service like Wise rather than a bank or paypal. I sent 65 EUR to Savoca from the UK this morning. Wise gave me proper market rate and charged a mere 44p. My bank would have charged a £5 transfer fee and given me a very poor exchange rate. Using Wise saved me about £7.

Savoca has been wonderful about doing this for me a well. And they have some of the least expensive and fastest shipping in the game!

[John Conduitt]

20 minutes ago, IanG said:

I agree with everything that people say about excessive shipping fees and exchange rates but there are mitigation strategies that you can use. Most of us buy from particular auction houses or dealers quite regularly, so simply ask them to hold the coins for you until you have accumulated a sufficient number to make shipping worthwhile. My two favourite auction houses by far are Roma and Savoca and both have agreed to this arrangement. A couple of years ago Roma were at one time holding about 30 coins for me accumulated over several months. Of course, you will still have to pay for the coins shortly after the auction but it can have a significant effect in 'diluting' the average shipping charge per coin.

This is a great idea, although it only works if you already buy regularly from them. That isn't going to happen if the shipping costs prevent me gambling that I might buy enough coins. It's been surprisingly easy to live without Stacks and Heritage, but then again, I don't want to buy slabs either, so they really have priced themselves out for me.

How long do they hold them? I buy from CNG maybe 4-6 times a year, and not evenly spaced - Jan, Mar, Aug, Sep 2022, and Jan 2023. If I'd asked them to hold Aug and Sep 2022 (I bought 1 coin in each), that's 5 months until I bought again in Jan 2023. But it cost me $75 in shipping for 2 coins, so it'd be worth it. (Alarmingly, I bought 9 coins from them in 2021, with shipping coming in at $185, even at decent rates).

[Hesiod]

26 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

How long do they hold them? 

Who? I've had savoca hold a coin for me for over a year (oops), and know of a friend at CNG who has had coins held for like a year and a half at this point. Solidus I've asked to hold a book but they ended up shipping it after a while anyway (which I don't really fault them for)

[IanG]

In response to John Conduitt's question over the last 5 years or so I've bought at 27 Savoca auctions. Over a longer period of time I've bought at 30 Roma auctions. So I have a good track record with both houses and I'm sure that underlies their willingness to hold coins for me. Neither has stipulated any limit on how long they would hold the coins  - remember they have been paid anyway shortly after each auction. The longest I've had coins held is about 5 months with Roma and as I say above it was then about 30 coins (that included a lot I'd bought because of one rare coin) but they were not putting me under any pressure. In the event I didn't pay any shipping charges at all because I picked them up on a trip to London. On the back of the Roma understanding I asked the same of Savoca and they said yes. They know if I don't pay for one auction I'll be bidding on another soon!