Weird Contemporary Imitation Agathokles Tetradrachm from Roma Auction

[Cordoba]

Update: roma got back to me and withdrew the lot while they research it further

 

Saw Roma just posted their new sale and they have this odd Agathokles tetradrachm, listed as a contemporary imitation. Seems like there's a forumancientcoins thread about it being fake. Euthydemos and Basileuontos are spelled wrong on the coin lol. This is the previous unsold listing https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4319&lot=1001. I can't say I'm an expert on detecting fakes, but the coin looks off to me. Wondering if others could give their opinions

 

 

https://www.romanumismatics.com/271-lot-464-greco-baktrian-kingdom-agathokles-dikaios-ar-imitation-tetradrachm?arr=0&auction_id=172&box_filter=0&cat_id=&department_id=&exclude_keyword=&export_issue=0&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=7500&image_filter=0&keyword=baktria&list_type=list_view&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=5&month=&page_no=1&paper_filter=0&search_type=&sort_by=lot_number&view=lot_detail&year=



 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Cordoba

[Romismatist]

Even though this isn't my collecting area or area of expertise, I would have steered clear of this coin based on the style. I guess these days forgers try to explain away awkward styles as "contemporary imitations". To me, all the devices on the coin seem too evenly worn - I would expect that the high relief of the bust would wear more quickly than the legends. Also, why is the legend to the top right on the obverse sharp while the beaded border just beside it is very worn? It seems impossible to create that effect through honest, natural wear. Everything also just looks a bit too "soft" to me.

[hotwheelsearl]

No expert but that suuuuure looks like it should be in the "paduans and electrotypes" category. There's no way that's even a contemporary imitation. Looks like a gift shop piece.

[DLTcoins]

Here's one in the British Museum, acquired from Sotheby's in 1993. The weight is close. The style is finer. The control mark to the right of Herakles' seat is different. The op has the same control mark as Mitchiner 145 (noted above). I agree the op photo is troubling.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1993-1106-28

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by DLTcoins

[velarfricative]

3 hours ago, Cordoba said:

 I can't say I'm an expert on detecting fakes, but the coin looks off to me.

About the pedigree types in general, I would recommend extreme caution when buying. Forgerynetwork lists IBSCC-condemned forgeries for many of the pedigree issue of Agathokles, and the recent die study condemns even more. They are one of the most sought-after types in the entire Bactrian series, and I think it's almost certain that there are very good forgeries out there that haven't been caught yet simply due to how expensive they are.

[Cordoba]

1 hour ago, velarfricative said:

About the pedigree types in general, I would recommend extreme caution when buying. Forgerynetwork lists IBSCC-condemned forgeries for many of the pedigree issue of Agathokles, and the recent die study condemns even more. They are one of the most sought-after types in the entire Bactrian series, and I think it's almost certain that there are very good forgeries out there that haven't been caught yet simply due to how expensive they are.

That's a shame, been wanting to get pedigree issues of Agathokles, but I'll definitely exercise much more caution. I think I can detect bad fakes, but not super confident in detecting all of them. is the best way to get better to look at more coins and check out forgerynetwork?

[velarfricative]

10 hours ago, Cordoba said:

That's a shame, been wanting to get pedigree issues of Agathokles, but I'll definitely exercise much more caution. I think I can detect bad fakes, but not super confident in detecting all of them. is the best way to get better to look at more coins and check out forgerynetwork?

Forgerynetwork is good, but looking at more coins is better. I'd recommend getting the die study and more reference works, and inspecting coins carefully before buying. If something differs wildly from the published specimens, it's probably safest to just stay away, especially when it's your money on the line. These coins made up a substantial part of Agathokles' monetary system so they do show up fairly frequently, but expect to have to shell out quite a bit of money for one. You probably will have difficulty finding any true budget examples for these in contrast to most other rulers.