Naville Numismatics 77 - Post Auction Discussion

[Steppenfool]

This was my first auction where I offered up serious bids on biddr during the Live Bidding portion. It was actually much more nerve wracking and more difficult to manage logistically than the Roma Numismatics style where they have a fixed auction end time. I had dinner plans and ended up having to enter via proxy bids for the latter portion.

Trajan, 98-117 Denarius Rome circa 112-114, AR 20.00 mm., 3.33 g.
Laureate bust r. slight drapery on l. shoulder. Rev. Annona standing l., holding grain ears and cornucopia; to l., child standing facing, head r. C 9. RIC 243.

This was my only win for the auction. I was torn between this and another ALIM ITAL offering. For those not in the know, this type commemorates Trajan's charity program the ALIMENTA that served the people of ITALY, hence the exeurge. More information about this, and the possible motivations can be found below. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimenta

There were two ALIM ITALs up for grabs on this auction, and both had their strengths and weaknesses. I eventually settled on the above for the slightly sharper reverse strike and the metal appealed to my eye a bit better. The alternate choice is below, with a more detailed portrait and complete obverse legend. They both went for similar prices, mine hammering at £70 , the below hammering at £65 which was one increment below (meaning best case scenario they would have been equally priced for me).

Which one would you have picked?

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Steppenfool

[ambr0zie]

Yours. Given the very small difference, I think your coin is superior. Better reverse, better surface, I like the portrait more.

The only plus of the second coin is a better obverse legend. Insufficient to make it a better coin.

[Jay GT4]

Glad you got something. The Naville auction for me was horrible.  The bid timing was all over the place.  I thought it might be my connection but when I tried the Biga auction running at the same time it was flawless.  Went back to Naville and again, it went from "going once" to "Sold".  Sometimes it would just hang there for seconds with nothing happening.  Tried on my laptop, phone and tablet, all the same.  Unfortunately,  several of my bids weren't executed even though they were higher than the winning bid.  I didn't get anything.  Anyone else experience this?

[SimonW]

Naville, unfortunately, insist on doing their auctions manually, meaning that the speed and timing constantly change.

@Jay GT4, can you send us a message through our contact form with the bids that didn't execute so that I can look into this?

Edited November 14, 2022 by SimonW

[Limes]

Yours as well! And for the same reasons you mention. So, good choice, and hopefully you had a nice dinner 🙂

[Steppenfool]

1 hour ago, Jay GT4 said:

Glad you got something. The Naville auction for me was horrible.  The bid timing was all over the place.  I thought it might be my connection but when I tried the Biga auction running at the same time it was flawless.  Went back to Naville and again, it went from "going once" to "Sold".  Sometimes it would just hang there for seconds with nothing happening.  Tried on my laptop, phone and tablet, all the same.  Unfortunately,  several of my bids weren't executed even though they were higher than the winning bid.  I didn't get anything.  Anyone else experience this?

I didn't actually do anything except proxy bids so I can't personally comment on this. When I was casually observing the early portion I did notice the coloured bar not making sense but attributed it to using 4G internet.

@LimesI had a great dinner. it was a lovely local Indian restaurant. My intestines weren't so happy the next day however!

Edited November 14, 2022 by Steppenfool

[Jay GT4]

 

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

Naville, unfortunately, insist on doing their auctions manually, meaning that the speed and timing constantly change.

@Jay GT4, can you send us a message through our contact form with the bids that didn't execute so that I can look into this?

Thanks Simon, I've filled  out the form.  It was really only one lot I was after so frustrating that it just closed without accepting my bid.  I was willing to go several incriments higher.  

[rhj959]

Followed most of the auction as I had ten lots consigned. I too had some strange pauses and instant jumps to 'sold'. I thought it was my own PC.

[Severus Alexander]

I think you got the right one of the two, @Steppenfool!  @ambr0zie sums up the reasons very nicely.  Very cool type! (Did you notice the equestrian Trajan? I quite liked the portrait on that one but it went higher than I was willing to pay.)

@Curtisimo and I had fun following this one live via pm, though many coins went very high to our dismay.  Seems to me that their prices have jumped since the move to biddr, but there were still some reasonable deals to be had.  I was happy to add a Kroton and an octopus to my collection with the same coin (70 gbp hammer):

Auction description: Bruttium, Croton Triobol circa 525-474, AR 11.00 mm., 1.03 g. Tripod with legs terminating in lion's feet. Rev. Octopus. Hisotria Numorum Italy 2128. SNG ANS 331. Old cabinet tone and very fine. From the collection of a Mentor.

I quite like the "Mentor" coins I've seen in Naville lately.  Anybody know anything about the consignor?  He stole @Steve's name for @dougsmit! 😄

The above coin is the ivy leaf variety which normally commands higher prices.  I've seen variable dating for the issue, I wonder if @antwerpen2306 can tell me more about what the current opinion is.

I also picked up an acceptable Brocchus Crawford 414/1 denarius for an acceptable price (55 gbp hammer). This was issued in 63 BCE, the year of Cicero's consulship and the Catiline conspiracy.  As far as I know it's the only coin with reasonably confident dating to that year.

[Finn235]

I watched some of the live bidding and noticed the same problems. Only put one bid out, which I expected to get blown out of the water but surprisingly won - 

A very welcome upgrade to my ratty hole filler Pertinax, which I hopefully can now break even on!

I also am curious to know if anyone has any insights into the very last lot, which had no images or useful descriptions except that it was a large lot of 650ish coins from the Steffanelli collection. 650 LRBs and byzantine trachys? 650 denarii? At less than $10 each, I almost was tempted to take the gamble, but decided against it. Auction houses really do themselves a disservice when they can't even be bothered to take one picture of lots that are expected to fetch multiple thousands of dollars/pounds - it restricts the pool of bidders to only those who are physically present at the auction to observe the lots in hand.

[Steppenfool]

@Severus Alexander

I did see the Equestrian Trajan but I already have an emperor on horseback coin of Trajan Decius which is too similar to justify forking out for another horse themed coin. My other main target was the ARAB ADQ Trajan and I was the "first loser" on that one. I was surprised at how high that went too. 

I like your additions. The Republican denarius is very cheap for the high level of historicity associated with it. I lost out on the mask of Pan Pansa variant and was the first loser on that one too. It hammered for £55 and I regret not going higher.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Steppenfool

[dougsmit]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:03 PM, Finn235 said:

650 LRBs and byzantine trachys? 650 denarii? At less than $10 each,

It has been a while since we have seen $10 denarii in identifiable condition but you would expect a large discount for having to buy 650.  Would you want 650 assorted denarii that might retail with effort at $50 each?  As a small dealer, would you want to tie up that much cash in coins probably averaging no more than fine.  $10 LRB's sounds about right for reasonably nice coins which we once called 'collector' grade.  To make it worth buying 650, I would expect them to be rather nice and not just random mix of the most common types.  Ask yourself, which of the coins below is worth $10 and would you like them with 600 of their closest friends.  I do wonder who would buy such a lot sight unseen or at all.  I do suspect that the market for coins selling retail for even $100 in that quantity  would be closer to $10 each than we might think.