robinjojo

Here's one more owl for this thread. It is an early archaic owl, minted during the rule of the tyrant Hippias (527-510 BC). This owl belongs to Seltman group H and weighs 17.48 grams. The owl produced during this period were experimental in design, at least during the earlier portion, with different arrangements of the reverse's AOE legend and the olive branches and leaves in relationship to the owl. The design of Athena's helmet is also quite distinctive when compared to subsequent archaic examples. By the time this coin was produced, towards 510 BC, the basic reverse design that was to dominate Athenian coinage until the new style owls of the second and first centuries BC was in place. Seltman considers these Group H owls to have been used for ceremonial purposes, the Greater Panathenaic festivals which occurred on a four year cycle. But what is most noteworthy for this thread is the deep incuse of the reverse, creating a solid flat rimmed frame around the owl and the other design elements. With later archaic owls, this type of incuse utterly disappears, probably due to two factors: 1) designing reverse dies with this feature required time and skill on the part of the engraver; and 2) as owl production approached 480 BC and the second Persian Invasion of Greece, speed of production was needed to produce the money to pay for construction of the Athenian fleet and the city's defensive walls. The need precluded attention to die engraving and preparation, as well as flan preparation, resulting in a wide array of styles and often very crude coins. Some archaic owls show parts of an incuse, but not a deep continuous one such as this coin's.

Here's a snap I took today of the Cuzco sunface 8 reales, kind of a mid-grade coin. Peru, South Peru, 8 reales, Cuzco, 1838 BA. KM 170.4 27.1 grams

Well, now that we're well into summer, I did get around today to photograph my other Argentine sunface 8 reales, 1813. This coin was purchased many years ago from Henry Christensen. Argentina 8 reales 1813, Potosi Mint. Ex Henry Christensen. KM 5 26.9 grams

That's a very nice necessity coin! When I was visiting the Rijksmuseum back in the 80s I saw an exhibit of these coins in all of the denominations, Here's my example, a necessity 40 stuivers AR "klippe", 1578,, with a PG countermark monogram above the city's arms, that looks as if the flan was cut from a silver object, perhaps a plate. I acquired this coin from World Wide Coins of California, back in the mid 1980s. 27.2 grams I have one more necessity coin from the war with Spain, from Maestricht. This coin came from my local coin dealer several years ago. Netherlands, Maestricht, AE 40 stuivers, 1579, issued during the siege by the Duke of Parma. 19.15 grams

This is probably the closest owl that I have meeting at least one of those two criteria. The obverse is almost complete by virtue of the fact that the die used is unusually small. The strike is off center but still most of the crest is present, with possibly a very small portion at the upper right. It's hard to tell. The crest seems to taper towards the top end of the helmet. As for the reverse, the incuse is typical for a standardized owl, rather narrow walls that do not make a perfect frame. In fact the right side of the incuse is quite shallow. Some of the Starr owls have this frame. Here's a Starr group III owl showing a nearly perfect incuse. More care was taken earlier in the 5th century before the standardized owl were produced in huge quantities.

Very nice coins, Al!

Most of those owls seem to be eastern imitations and I think the price for that lot is too high, way too high, IMHO.

Nice owls! Even though they have circulated and have countermarks and test cuts, they are fascinating coins to study. I am not sure about the two countermarks on the first owl. As for the second owl, I have seen countermarks similar to the two on that coin. The lower cm could be a Paleo Hebrew "taw". That could be a banker's cm or possibly a cm authorizing the use of that owl for local commercial transactions. Edit: I took a second look at the Phoenician alphabet. This is a long shot, but the second countermark on the first owl might be a retrograde Phoenician "beth". That retrograde is more apparent in the second rotated photograph. Here's a link to the Phoenician alphabet: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phoenician_alphabet.svg

Poor quality fakes. You might try the magnet test on one of the coins. I imagine the coin will stick to the magnet, but even if it doesn't the coin is still a fake.

Sleeping Buddha, Antique Fossil Ivory Netsuke, early 20th century. Japan trade dollar 1877 Meiji year 10. Davenport 275 27.19 grams Japan Koban. Bunsei era (1819-1828). Edo mint. 13.1 grams

What wonderful examples, and that United Amsterdam Company reaal is a super rare coin! Congratulations on acquiring one of these extremely elusive coins. Thank you so much for the information that you provided, including the Leyden medal. I had no luck locating any detailed information on it, so I will be sure to include your information with the medal. I like coins with the City of Amsterdam arms. I have two, a klippe necessity coin that I need to photograph. I'll try to do that. The other coin is a double ducatoon, 1673. Holland, 2 ducatoons, 1673. Davenport 4932 65.28g As is typical of hammer struck coins, the strike is a bit uneven, but at least there isn't any significant doubling.

Dafydd, I think that any attempt to remove the toning will inevitably result in a bright shiny and unattractive coin with little or no contrast. Since your coin's features generally subtle due the grade and possibly other factors, they will blend in with the fields and not stand out after cleaning, making the coin appear slicker and less appealing, in my view. "Restoring" or reverting back is are terms that is complicated by what one thinks was the coin's previous state. Reverting back to the way it might have looked like from a hoard, assuming that's where it came from? Reverting back to how it might have appeared coming out of the mint (not advisable as stated above)? The fact is coins, like everything else in this world are in a constant state of change, so reference points become relative. Even coins that have been carefully stored will slowly darken over time if they are silver or bronze, unless they are in an environment devoid of oxygen. If you coin was artificially toned, I assume that it was cleaned to the point of having bright surfaces. However, I have seen gray with some blue toning in a coin's recesses caused by storage in manila and other paper envelopes, so I am not convinced that there is artificial toning present on your coin. So, getting back to the question about your coin, I'd say leave it alone, but a better photo would be helpful. Time will make sure that your ancient coin remains ancient in appearance. Question: Had you not had the dealer's opinion that the coin was artificially toned, would you be pleased with the way it appears now? That's a nice rare coin by the way!

Nice coin! The Spanish Netherlands have a rich history of historic coinage. Here's a rijksdaalder from the Thorn Nunnery, Belgium, 1569: Belgium, Margaretha of Brederode, Thorn Nunnery, rijksdaalder, 1569. Ex Karl Stephens. Davenport 8672 28.90 grams The Spanish Netherlands portrait coinage of Philip II, Philip III, Philip IV, Charles II and other Hapsburg and Bourbon kings is noteworthy. Aside from the William the Silent, William of Orange and Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester coinage of the United Provinces, I don't know of any other coins with the portrait of a ruler. Here's my Leicester rijksdaalder, 1587: Netherlands, Holland, Leicester rijksdaalder ,1587. Davenport 8843; Delmont 900 28.79 grams William Dudley, the First Earl of Leicester, was a favorite of Queen Elizabeth I from her ascension to his death on September 4, 1588. He was one her suitors for many years. Finally, here is my William the Silent rijksdaalder, produced posthumously, following his assassination on July 10, 1584. Netherlands, Holland, rijksdaalder, William the Silent, 1592. Davenport 8841 28.63 grams William the Silent played a key role in the establishment of the United Provinces and the war against Spain's domination of the low countries.

That's a really cool coin!

Nice medals , Donna! Napoleon I was not known for his modest and diffident personality, to be sure!

Thank you for the lovely coins posted so far! I have a lot of coins from The Netherlands which I hope to photograph over time. Here are a few more: West Friesland, lion daalder, 1641. Davenport 4870 27.2. grams This lion daalder of West Friesland ("WEST" at the end of the obverse legend) , from the prolific mid-1600s is typical for the coinage of the time where quantity produced was the priority at the mints. While this coin is comparatively common, it is very distinctive at the same time. The West Friesland mint produced lion daalders with an almost unique style lion, with its small head and what I call a snub nose profile. That feature is so typical of this mint that, with experience, one could identify this coin as being from West Friesland without even looking at the obverse. Zwolle, lion daalder, 1646. Davenport 4885 26.4 grams This is civic issued lion daalder, from the city of Zwolle. The lion daalders of Zwolle are distinctive for their use of the St. George slaying the dragon theme on the obverse shield instead of the rampant lion. Because of the typically crude and uneven strike the city's legend is weak in areas, but Z(W)OL, followed by IMP can be observed on the obverse, left side. On the reverse the date appears from about 9 to 11 o'clock. Zwolle lion daalder have the reverse date in different positions, depending on the year. Other dates have the year running across the reverse, half to the left of the lion and the other to the right. The coin's flan, while not the worst in terms of metal quality, still shows minimal flan refining and preparation. This was a truly mass production undertaking for all mints! Campen, lion daalder, 1648. Davenport 4879 27.66 grams Lion daalders of the mid-1600s are generally readily available, thanks to large quantities from hoards and collections appearing on the auction circuit as well as dealers' price lists. This is generally especially true for coins in the 1649 to 1651 dates from Campen (a civic issue) and other mints. This example happens to be high grade and very pleasing to the eye. In fact I would say that if a collector is looking for a type lion daalder, a coin such as this one will fill the role very well. Zeeland, ducatoon, silver rider, 1662. Davenport 4942 45 mm, 32.15 grams Here's a ducatoon for a change of pace. Like her sister crown-size coins (lion daalder, rijksdaalder and silver ducat) the large and impressive ducatoons were hammer struck over the course of the 17th century. The result, predictably, are uneven and often off center strikes. This coin is a typical example, perhaps even above average for this type in terms of quality. Overijssel, lion daalder, 1679. Davenport 4861 25.827 grams This is a crude and low weight lion daalder of Overijssel ("TRANS" at the end of the obverse legend). Overijssel means over the IJssel River, a tributary of the Rhine River. In addition to the low weight, the coin has obviously been around the block several times, with some scratches added for good measure. These coins were made from .750 silver, and my experience collecting them has shown that the weights can vary significantly, almost always on the lower side of the scale. In the case of this coin, while the diameter is what one would expect, at 42mm, the flan appears slightly thin but more importantly the medal is of lower quality, as indicated by the flaws and porosity. I am sure that wear also explains part of the low weight as well, but generally it seems that the mints, especially in the final decades of the 17th century, did not keep to tight standards when producing these trade coins. Utrecht, lion daalder, 1680, no borders. Davenport 4865 26.45 grams This coin is somewhat unusual. It is a subtype without the inner border line on both sides. Was this an oversight or intentional? The inner border of dots appears again on Utrecht lion daalders in the subsequent years.

That's a beautiful token, Donna! Absolutely wonderful preservation. The edge lettering of my token reads "Payable in London and Dublin". My understanding about jetons is that they didn't really have any monetary value, or at least they weren't treated that way. Tokens, on the other hand, were used often in lieu of money, usually within a network of people or businesses (the "good for" tokens). That's my understanding. Perhaps others can help illuminate the differences between jetons and tokens.

I was thinking that the damage might have been caused by a sorting machine. The package that Roma uses is quite tough and it has internal padding (bubble wrap). I think under the right conditions, such as the package getting jammed, a corner could be torn off either by the machine or by someone trying to dislodge it. The tape was applied somewhere in transit by the USPS, that is clear.

On Saturday I visited my coin shop in Willow Glen, and this time focused on world coins, medals and tokens. In all I purchased four. France, AR octagonal jeton, 1830, St Gobain glass manufacturer, established in 1702. 19.70 grams Normally I do not buy jetons. That's a specialty in itself, but if I find one that's particularly appealing, why not? Anti-slavery AE token, London and Dublin, late 18th century, lettered edge. 8.97 grams This is an early Abolitionist token. In the ongoing struggle for human rights and dignity, this was a timely purchase in my view. Gloustershire, J. Whalley, AR token 2 shillings 6 pence, ex Davisson E-auction 33, Lot 172. 9.54 grams Latvia, AR 5 Lati, 1931. KM 9 24.96 grams I used to own one of these beautiful and readily available crowns, but I sold it about three decades ago. These coin are quite common, but finding one with minimal contact marks and decent surfaces can be a challenge. According to Sal, the shop's owner, these coins were quite scarce prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. After the breakup huge numbers of these coins came onto the market. Note: The coin was colloquially known as a Milda (a popular traditional Latvian woman's name). The model was Zelma Brauere (1900-1977), a proofreader in the State Securities Printing House. So, that's it for now. Please post your world coins (including the Baltic States), medals, jetons, tokens or anything else you wish. Thank you.

I got a confirmation from Roma this morning that my shipping preference was switched from Royal Mail/USPS to FedEx, so apparently they will use that service if requested. I know that they also use DHL. DHL Express service is very fast and reliable and costly. I have had coins delivered through that service for high ticket (at least for me) items costing around $1,500 or more. I suppose that using FedEx or DHL is worth the additional shipping expense due to a lower risk of something going wrong when compared to traditional public postal services, but in the end the probability cannot be reduced to zero, so there is even an outside chance of some sort of mishap with them. Still I feel better now switching to FedEx. As for the lost coins, who knows? They might be knocking around in an airplane's cargo hold, or they might be in some dark corner of a sorting room in the UK or US, or they might be on someone's kitchen table. I did file a missing mail search request with the USPS, in which I tried to describe the missing box and coins, but I knew that was really a pointless effort. That service searches for missing mail not delivered by an expected date. It is of no use for situations where the package was delivered but with contents missing. As far as I know there is no Lost and Found service with the USPS and probably the private delivery services as well. The very complexity of domestic and global delivery systems precludes such a service, I suppose. So, only two days following my search request with the USPS I received a message from the them that the package was delivered on Friday - end of story for them. Well, in these situations I tried to take a relativistic view: in a world so full of strife and suffering, this little problem of mine pales in comparison, and I am getting a refund. Even if a refund was not forthcoming I could absorb the cost, but I am happy that is not the situation.

Update- Roma, as I expected, responded promptly with a refund. I also instructed them to change my shipping preference to FedEx. One of the coins lost was a very rare AE dirham of the Danishmendids, Shams al-din Isma'il. The other two were, an imitation didrachm, "uncertain Eastern Satrapy", in pretty rough shape (horn silver and cleaning marks), and a AR dirham of the Seljuks of Rum, a relatively common coin, but in nice condition. The latter coin I posted on this forum while in shipment, so I probably jinxed it.

I hope to hear from Roma this week, possibly tomorrow or Tuesday. It is curious that one box out of three is missing. Could it be that the package was damaged at some point and taped, possibly from the UK to the US? This is a registered mail package, so there should be a point-to-point record. The lack of any notation of damage is odd. So, could it be that one box was extracted with the assumption that it would not be missed? Very strange...

Last Friday I received a shipment from Roma Numismatics that seemed normal on first glance. I didn't notice the USPS tape applied at one end of the package, so I cut it open to extract the contents. Roma, as many of you know, sends coins grouped in their black boxes. Well, I pulled out two boxes and the packing statements (the shipment included lots from two auctions). In total, there should have been seven coins. There were four. The packing statement included all seven. Then I noticed the USPS Express Mail tape. Looking at the that end of the package, it is apparent that something caused it to tear wide enough, by my measurement to allow a box to fall through, or to be pulled out. There was no notation or stamp indicating that the package was damaged in transit, as is normal in this situation. So, I emailed Roma on Friday and await their response. There is a possibility that the three lots are still with them, and for whatever reason were not included in the shipment, but this obvious repair made to the package leads me to think that something amiss happened between London and California. I'm not worried about getting my money refunded, through Roma or my credit card company, and the lots were not expensive, relatively speaking, at $411, but the situation is disconcerting. Here's a photo of the package and its contents, not including the packing statements.

I just saw this owl tonight on eBay, under "sold" items. It is in an NGC slab with a MS star grade. Sellers can apparently show the listed price as the sold price, even though the item was either sold at a lower price, or, possibly not sold at all. https://www.ebay.com/itm/353926512941?hash=item5267aa012d%3Ag%3AS2UAAOSwcp5fUT4f&nma=true&si=MdLyBpUFSNLkUFCgFpjhUEddHok%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Here's a silver medal that I've owned for a few years. This large medal, produced during the United Provinces' war with Spain, commemorates the ending of the Spanish occupation of Leyden on October 3, 1574. The obverse legend reads "SIC•HISPA•A•LEYD•NOCTV•FVG" [Spanish fled Leiden in the night] . The reverse has the Spanish fleeing the city, depicted here as Jerusalem, pursued by an angel brandishing a sword, giving it a Biblical theme. The reverse legend is: "VT.SANHERIB•A•IERVSALEM 2•REG•19" [as Sanherib fled Jerusalem, Book of Kings 2, 19]. 51.03 grams (note: this medal is somewhat heavier than the average for this type, which is around 35-40 grams. It might be a restrike, but I doubt it.)