El Cazador

On 9/6/2023 at 1:58 AM, lordmarcovan said:

This is my second time doing the Twelve Caesars.  I'm up to eight of the twelve as of this posting, so 2/3 of the way done.  My main criteria are a nice portrait and decent eye appeal.

The last time I did the Twelve, a decade ago, I was on a much smaller budget.

Here we go...

Julius Caesar: needed; want a lifetime portrait coin.

Augustus: AR cistophorus of Ephesus.

 

Tiberius: AR denarius ("Tribute Penny").

 

Caligula: needed; will probably go with a VESTA As.

Claudius: AE sestertius.  Going back to NGC for reimaging and reholdering (for pix without those pesky prongs).

 

Nero: AV aureus.

 

Galba: needed; not sure what type I'll go for yet.

Otho: AR denarius; recent CNG win, off to NGC soon.

 

Vitellius: needed; will likely go with a denarius.

Vespasian: AR denarius; yes, it's a posthumous issue struck under Titus, but I love this coin (I have a thing for capricorns).

 

Titus: AV aureus; recent purchase from Palmyra Heritage Galleries.  Will go back to NGC for reimaging and reholdering.

 

Domitian: AR denarius; as Caesar under Titus.  A recent purchase from Apollo Numismatics.  Will go off to NGC soon.

My favorites: Domitian & Vespasian 

20 hours ago, lordmarcovan said:

Love the contrasting patina on that Claudius AE.  But it's your Otho that really wow-ed me!

Superb 

6 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

Just think whilst unpacking the coins several years later and finding an egregious fake, or that the wrong coin had ben put in!  And then because of the time between  purchase, receiving and unveiling I think the seller who have grounds that sufficient time had passed for due diligence.

I too once had a wrong coin sent to me about a year ago. The received coin was certainly nowhere near the value of the one ordered  or of any  interest numismatically!  But the swap took place rapidly and things are right now.

I'm am surprised people haven't jumped in with their comments on the coins themselves....the Leg Makadonon  is spectacular  and highly historical. 

I personally think there were 4 quality coins, including Macedon Tetradrachm 

3 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

Good for you. That's not what this is about.

Thanks for enlightening me🙏

4 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

You're missing the point entirely. The phrase, on its own, is fine. It's no better or worse than "from a collection formed between 1960 and 1990" that other auction houses use. 

However, take that phrase and use it on 7,000 lots that clearly did not come from one consignor, nor come from dozens of family collections that have been sitting in mahogany cabinets for decades.

Next, consider that many of these coins have been harshly cleaned, are sold in large quantities of the same type, and generally have hoard-like characteristics. 

Lastly, keep in mind that Swiss law requires these coins to have been inside Europe prior to 2005.

Now, what is your conclusion? Do you still think Leu is just super lucky and stumbling across all these consignors who know their coins are pre-2005 yet have zero sales history or more precise dating?

Edit: I'll add that I'm making no judgements here about buying coins from Leu with these provenances. I just don't think those provenances are fooling anyone.

I personally care less about provenances- marketing hype created to drive up prices

15 minutes ago, Hesiod said:

When I consigned with them they certainly went out of their way to find any and all sales history for the coins I provided

Can we ask what you consigned with them?

14 hours ago, Limes said:

anyone planning to participate in their web auction, from 9 - 11 september? Another auction, with hunderds and hundreds of coins. Its [almost] an overkill! 

Absolutely, i have about 5 coins i am aiming for

3 minutes ago, Phil Anthos said:

I've known all along that I would have to sell off eventually, but now that I'm retired the dilemma is real... which of my children do I sell first?

I have all but certainly bought my last coin, unless I find a nice Vlasto 1 for which I could always sell a kidney. But 'liquidating' is such a scarey word!

~ Peter Hope 

 

Can you share some of the coins you are planning to sell?

2 minutes ago, JimBranson said:

The path from initial theft to current status is irrelevant once Leu was made aware of the stolen nature of these coins. 

This is absolutely not true- “path” - meat and potatoes of the issue here

Just now, JimBranson said:

CNG, unlike some auction houses, has a positive industry reputation and a track record of solid business practices. The owner of the firm has a reputation likewise and so is in a position to be trusted. 

Certainly, but we need specifics around logistics as to how they ended up at Leu, perhaps there were 5 other owners before the consignor got a hold of it… so it is not totally fair to call out these other 5 owners and Leu

5 minutes ago, Hesiod said:

I don't know about the specific coins in question, but mike (the owner of cng) made a comment on Facebook about stolen coins (see the second post)

And?

3 minutes ago, Ryro said:

Where were they sold previously? Knowing that would be damning and not just speculation. I understand we are being told they were stolen off a truck. But from where?

Excellent points!!

3 hours ago, kapphnwn said:

Ae As of Germanicus struck during the reign of Caius 37-38 AD obv Head left bare Rv. Inscription around SC RIC 35 Banti-Simonetti 6/5 This coin illustrated 11.42 grms 28 mm Phot by W. Hansen

This coin is part of the extremely large issue struck by Caligula honoring his father. 

Just fantastic 

3 hours ago, Octavius said:

 Denarius of Caligula with his dad , Germanicus...

Dupondius of Germanicus , struck by his son....

Two asses of Germanicus ... first one struck by his son  Caligula ,  and the second one struck by his brother, Claudius....

Impressive, to say the least! Love 1 and 3 the most

3 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

It's impossible to go about day-to-day life without some hypocrisy. Unless we all want to live like Greta Thunberg.

We should look up to Greta

1 hour ago, red_spork said:

For one, Credit Card or Paypal costs noticeably more. It varies depending on the exact amount and currency and whatnot but Wise often works out to 1% versus 3% or even more sometimes for other payment methods not to mention most auction houses tack on additional fees for paypal or CC too and it all adds up. I'd be pissed and especially if I bought a coin at the higher end of the price I'd be willing to pay for it and then had unexpected fees tacked on I might not pay the invoice, personally.

True, I personally rare use Wise as it funnels funds our of your checking account and there is no recourse against the seller in case something goes wrong. The only way I would use it is to pay invoices for established US auction houses - you all know the names

1 hour ago, Kaleun96 said:

Well for starters you can only use CC or PayPal for invoices less than £2,500. But the more important aspect is that Roma has twice in the past month sent out emails declaring their bank account details have changed following an auction. Which is a little concerning in normal circumstances, more so when the director has pled guilty to 10 felonies including fraud.

I know you're determined to be their protector on this forum for whatever reason but I think you know as well as the rest of us that it is somewhat odd that Roma is changing their banking details out of the blue at the last minute so often. At the very least it is relevant information to us as buyers - if I win a lot in their next auction I will hold off payment for a few days to see if this happens again.

I think all fair points, and for the record- i am not a protector here, but what’s bizzare is that certain members here bash the auction house and then bid in their auctions - total hypocrisy

40 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

Just got :

IMPORTANT

Dear x

Due to unforeseen circumstances, you will not be able to wire funds to our Wise account as shown on the face of your invoice.

And? What does it mean? If you can pay with CC or PayPal for invoices - who cares what Wise situation is - Roma still in business 

1 hour ago, shanxi said:

In another forum, a user asked Savoca about this coin and some others, and they replied (translated)

 

"Good day

Thank you very much for your message.
Unfortunately, a customer cancelled his invoice from the 171st Silver Auction and we have subsequently posted the coins on
VCoins."

 

🤣🤣🤣, Classic 

9 hours ago, ajax said:

The moment I post it, it will be 2 auctioneers knowing my identity and profile me as a provenance seeker. Next time they will see me in an auction, they will jump to bid against me because they will believe I know a hidden provenance.

By the way did you ever post one of your coins?

Ok, so no coin?

9 minutes ago, Orfew said:

Fantastic acquisition David!!!! Congratulations. This is a once in a lifetime coin.

Why one in a lifetime? Is this another Aid Mar?

6 minutes ago, Molag Bal said:

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/savoca_gmbh__co_kg/234/product/seleucis_and_pieria_antioch_nero_with_agrippina_junior_circa_ad_5468_dated_ry_3_and_year_105_of_the_caesarean_era_tetradrachm_ar/1953702/Default.aspx

 

Savoca won it! 

Insane, no? Isn’t this a pure indication of inappropriate bidding behavior? Totally losing trust with them

5 hours ago, ajax said:

 

Last time I got a slabbed coin from heritage, the consignor was someone like you. He bought the coin from an obscure auction in which I actually was the second underbidder. Then he slabbed the coin and hoped for an easy profit in heritage. Unfortunately for fim, he lost at least 2000 USD out of it. To add insult to injury, the coin has a 1905 Hirsch provenance which neither the slabber nor the flipper cared to research. I think there is a colossal anomaly in the market and everyday I see new self-proclaimed experts (flippers) bidding aggressively for coins they have no idea about. Even auctioneers aggressively buy coins from auctioned collections so they can mix 1 coin with an old provenance among the hundred of new finds they are auctioning. Like in this way they will make the entire sale legitimate. Needless to say that it gives me great pleasure to rip the flippers. Possibly much more than just winning the coin itself.

Can we see the coin in question?

38 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

While browsing through CNG E-Auction 545, lot 432 caught my attention because I've got an example of this coin type. The coin in question is the first one pictured below.

https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-AURXNZ/coelesyria-laodicea-ad-libanum-septimius-severus-ad-193-211-bi-tetradrachm-25mm-763-g-12h-struck-ad-207-208-vf

The CNG description states the coin is Very rare, with only 6 examples cited by Prieur (I'm fairly certain more than 6 examples of this coin type are known). A striking feature with the CNG example is the weight of only 7.63 grams 🤔. That weight is unusually low, more like the weight of a didrachm. The coin pictured below the CNG example is the coin in my collection, with a weight of 14.37 grams. The last coin pictured is a different a different type using the same obverse obverse die but a different reverse die, Prieur 1119. Notice the eagle head is turned to the right & there is no wreath in the eagle's beak. This coin type is more common with 5 examples cited by Prieur, & 11 examples in CoinArchives. The last example sold in CNG Triton XXVI for $6,125.00 (including the buyers premium. One thing that appears to be in common with all three of these coins is they seem to be struck with the same obverse die in various stages of deterioration, the last coin being the earliest strike.

https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-85Z9PM/seleucis-and-pieria-laodicea-ad-mare-septimius-severus-ad-193-211-bi-tetradrachm-27mm-1387-g-11h-struck-circa-ad-205-207-choice-ef

So my question is this, what could account for the very low weight of the first coin 🤨? Could this coin be a modern forgery made from dies copied from genuine coins, or could it be an ancient fake, or could it be just an oddball coin? Please give me your thoughts & thanks for looking ☺️.

 

Absolutely love #2 & 3

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

Thank you. So how long would you wait for the package to be found before requesting a refund: a couple of weeks? a month?  

2-4 weeks in my opinion