NewStyleKing

All's well that ends well. (Earl of Oxford......Elizabeth l.....Francis Bacon...). All is true!

The general idea of two coins having identical obverses and reverses is common. In the catalogue of the New Style Silver Coinage of Athens it will be seen to be quite common.More useful and of numismatic value are obverses of the same type mated with differing reverses and reverse types.eg, this can show  chronological progression and is a key factor in the NSSCA.

Maybe it looked that it was worth 3 spratts instead of 4. My take on differing coin weights and conditions in local markets.

My Lydian is on a par with my understanding of Rongorongo, but thanks for the academia article!

Can somebody point out the inscriptions on these coins.............I can hardly make anything out!

11 hours ago, robinjojo said:

Interesting coins!  I was totally unaware of the Isis counterstamp.

Here's an account of the siege of Rhodes by Mithradates in 88 BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(88_BC)#:~:text=The siege of Rhodes took,%2C Lucius Cassius%2C with them.

Here's my new style with Roma seated on the reverse, clearly not subjected to the Roman victors' counterstamp.

Athens, new style owl, 91/0 AD, Roma seated on reverse, month  Z on amphora, control ΔΑ below.  reverse legend: XENOCLES HARMOXENOS.

Thompson 1123

16.56 grams

This coin was struck at the beginning of the Social War (91-87 BC) in Italy, a time of rebellion by some of Rome's autonomous allies.  Preceding the First Mithridatic War (89–85 BC) this owl leaves no ambiguity regarding allegiance.

The overstamped coin was bought without provenance by the BNF after NSSCA was published and (as far as I know), nothing was ever published about, although it might have been written about in Les histories des guerres Mithradatiques... ..... by deCallatay 1997...that photo came via that anyway.  The next person who definitely wrote it was NewStyleKing who seems to link the headdress of Isis, the defeat of king Mithradates at the Siege of Rhodes and the Epiphany of Isis as a propaganda symbol against pontus in Headdress of Iset-who wears the crown? on academia.edu.

The Roma coin's  symbol was questioned ..why was it here?  The Romalia festival commemorated? At such a fevered time!  Obverse die linked to  what is called Nike crowning Roma..why? Festival , Sura defeating tribes, the  Roman social wars......who really knows BUT number 1 magistrate is Kointos which is the Greek version of the Roman name Quintus, Romans  had stormed the magistrates in Athens!

An imitation(3rd coin of mine) copies the Roma version  but the figure is likely to be Aetolia replacing Roma. The magistrates names are copied..but I have said that symbols are very potent forms of propaganda...  Was this a propaganda piece mocking Rome?  Aetolia defeated the Celts and sat on their shields....is this referring to Romans  or Mithradates?...... 

Athens New Style Tetradrachm c91/0 BC

Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet
29.9 mm 16.4 gm Thompson issue (new) 75
Thompson catalogue: Obs1122/Rev1123 NEW
Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic
Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora
on which month mark H/Z control ΣTΕ/ΔΑ below
2 magistrates : XENOCLES HARMOXENOS
RF symbol : Roma seated

Athens New Style Tetradrachm c90/89 BC

Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet
30.5 mm 15.67 gm corroded Thompson issue (new) 76
Thompson catalogue: 1128a
Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic
Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora
on which month mark Γ control ΠΡ below
3 magistrates : KOINTOS KLEAS DIONYSI
RF symbol : Roma & Nike
All surrounded by an olive wreath

Athens New Style Tetradrachm c90/9 BC

Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet
29 mm 16.53 gm 
Thompson catalogue: IMITATION Obs : 1420 Rev : NEW
Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic
Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora
on which month mark A control ? below
2 magistrates : XENOCLES HARMOXENOS
RF symbol : Aetolia ?
All surrounded by an olive wreath

You might have read that Gold issues by Athens was rare and only seemed to have happened during times of political stress.

I think this qualifies!

https://www.academia.edu/95114677/Remelted_or_overstruck_cases_of_monetary_damnatio_memoriae_in_Hellenistic_times?email_work_card=title

I thought some might be interested in this.

I am because of the remarkably overstamped Athens NewStyle of king Mithradates and Aristion.  Yes, I agree  it is to damn  the Pontic  symbol and all that entails.  But what prof. deCallatay doesn't say is why headdress of Isis  was possibly chosen.  I have maintained because of the first disastrous setback to Mithradates. His attack on Rhodes  was a farce where his assault was  thwarted by none other than the goddess Isis who intervened by hurling thunderbolts. Rhodes, Rome's ally was saved .  It is my contention that the headdress of Isis symbol became a pro-Roman symbol of defiance and why it was selected to trump the pontic star between 2 crescents. Symbols are more potent than words and are a visual form of literacy available to all.

Just think whilst unpacking the coins several years later and finding an egregious fake, or that the wrong coin had ben put in!  And then because of the time between  purchase, receiving and unveiling I think the seller who have grounds that sufficient time had passed for due diligence.

I too once had a wrong coin sent to me about a year ago. The received coin was certainly nowhere near the value of the one ordered  or of any  interest numismatically!  But the swap took place rapidly and things are right now.

I'm am surprised people haven't jumped in with their comments on the coins themselves....the Leg Makadonon  is spectacular  and highly historical. 

The obvious stand out coin is.........no, not the Sullan pseudo NewStyle.......but the rare Leg Makadonon, which I think is believed to predate the first meris ones.   What are your stand-out coins?

10 hours ago, kapphnwn said:

Looks like one of the coins I recently put up for auction, he decided to purchase.

Tetradrachm of M. Licinius Lucullus 86-84 in the style of an Athenian New Style tetradrachm Obv Head of Athena right wearing triple crested Athenian style helmet Rv Owl standing right head facing on overturned amphora HGC 1777 16.10 grms 31 mm Photo by W. Hansen

The types are iconically Athenian but This coin lacks the city ethnic of Athens bringing into question whether or not the coin was actually struck there. The traditional view is that Sulla had started striking these coins after the fall of the city, however now they are ascribed to Lucullus, that question does deserve rather more scrutiny. 

Margaret Thompson in NSSCA devides these Sullan pseudo Athenian NewStyles in to type l  with an "A"  on the amphora and type ll without.  ESG Robinson  decoded the monograms to read Markoy Tamoiy which translates as Marcus, treasurer . I believe Thompson also was a believer! Marcus Lucullus was the beloved brother of Lucius Lucullus, it seems he was given a task also to raise a fleet as well as minting acceptable coinage.  Robinson's decoding is generally accepted today...it is interesting that the monogram form was used  which existed on the earlier NewStyle type  and that the horse protomes on Athena's helmet  is similar to that found on Heraklia on Lamon wreathed tetradrachms.  My coin was purchased from eBay!

A really nice read. For fans of republican coins, Magna Grecia  and finally Greece. Mention is made of the Gaius Publius bronze coins of Macedon that another forum member, (topcat) showed recently. And, of course, a honourable mention of the athenian NewStyle coinage which he dates c170-30BC  which I think is wrong. I  am of the popular modern opinion of c 164 - 42 BC

Read it on academia.edu

Roman cameos and gems....... But I volunteer to oversee the Athenian coin collections.........although I have coins they don't!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66543589

In recent weeks the tale of long term thefts by a curator at the BM that was seemingly ignored by "the management". Rumour has it eBay was used as a selling vehicle!

A bit like the baby murders at The Countess of Chester hospital blocked and ignored over years by "The management"

What do management do? Attend champagne receptions, BS 100% and when it gets difficult  blank it and take a dip in de nile!

On 8/19/2023 at 11:33 AM, Topcat7 said:

Circa 168-167 B.C. MACEDON, Amphipolis, under Roman Rule. Time of Lucius Aemilius Paullus Æ21.6. (Gaius Puplilius, quaestor), .

Obv: Helmeted head of Roma right

Rev: MAKEΔONΩN TAMIOΥ ΓAIOΥ ΠOΠΛIΛIOΥ (MACEDON, QUAESTOR GAIUS PUPLILIUS) in three lines within oak wreath.

Ref: BMC 72; SNG Copenhagen 1320. 10.58g, 21.6mm, 

Very much in the flavour of the Lucullian Pseudo-Athenian NewStyles with monograms. These monograms have been decoded to read Lucullus Tamioy cf above.  I have no doubt that Robinson's unravelling is correct and Lucullus was basically echoing this Roman Makadonon type and the Aesillas type which had some precedent and thus acceptable.

I guess the illegible script  is not a script eh?  When is a pattern a script other than when it's recognisable.  What do the legible scripts on other examples say? This is not a badge of Phanes! Illumination required please.

Facing bust of Helios, whilst looking like Jesus

Athens NewStyle c 138/7  BC

Very little NewStyle wise has excited me since the Salton, late post Sullan coin. Maybe the thompson #3 sold by Roma, but not like in the good ol' days!

It looks as if they used the dies to death.  Amphikrates and Epistratos symbol: Ear of Grain.   15 known obverses. The NewStyles at that time were completely lacking in artistic merit and the minting careless. date c 101/0.  Towards the end of the Thompson Middle period.

No it's not an imitation, they are really that bad! Thompson in NSSCA had trouble reading examples too!  I don't think rarity in ac search means a great lot

104/3 Dionysus & Demeter ANDREAS - CHARINAUTES 

103/2 WreathIKESIOS - ASKLEPIADES 

102/1 Dionysus Mask & Thyrsus TIMOSTRATOS - POSES   N 

101/0 Ears of Grain AMPHIKRATES - EPISTRATOS 

100/9 Tyche Staff & Cornucopia DOSITHEOS - CHARIAS   N**

GEORGI DOBREVO/2000 RECONSIDERED: NOTE ON A 1ST-CENTURY BC COIN HOARD FROM THRACE* EVGENI I. PAUNOV

Read and be appalled!  On academia under E. Paunov

A great paper by Evgeni  Paunov absolutely fascinating......coins go a hiking in ancient times and today!

Just the kind of person I love. Found this in a note by another Bulgarian scholar.

"Penchev 2001. Penchev is the single keeper of the coin collection at the National History Museum in Sofia. As a rule, he strictly forbids any approach for access to and research on the coins in the collection, whether from Bulgarian or foreign scholars."

With these people around and nourished....what is the point!  Smells fishy to me...what has he got to hide?  You cannot make it up, but is the second example i know of...museums eh?  Brick prisons of Ignorance.

Small size, non- Attic weight, 27mm  14.97 gm. Den of Antiquity  Abydos Troas  Anyone got any references on the hellenistic silver coins of Abydos Troas.