John Balliol

[Egry]

Hi All,

I’m looking to get a coin for a friend of mine that is just getting out of an unexpected cancer surgery. He’s a Scott therefore I would like to get him a penny of John Balliol, (unless someone has another recommendation).

 

This is outside of my regular Roman Imperial knowledge so just seeking advice from you good people. Looking for any advice from reputable sellers of this period, price range, or any other coin recommendations.

 

thanks in advance for any help!

[John Conduitt]

I've found Scottish coins hard to come by in good condition. There aren't a lot of John Balliol to choose from, so you might want to widen it. Some monarchs are more popular and/or easier to find anyway. David I or II, Alexander III, James IV. Even James VI. There's little for under $250, but more around $500+.

The most likely place to get one is from a British medieval dealer. Maybe Simon Hall, British Hammered Coins, Silbury Coins, or History in Coins.

[Egry]

Thanks John! 

[Egry]

@John Conduitt, I went through all the dealers you mentioned. Thanks for sharing. I did find a John Balliol coin.

as a bonus I think I found a possible new favourite coin. This one is so awesome. 
 

not mine but from the dealers website. Do you recognize it?

 

 

 

[John Conduitt]

Awesome coin. James VI ryal (from History in Coins by the photo!)?

[Egry]

Yep you are correct. Such a cool coin. 

[UkrainiiVityaz]

Your best bet for finding a Scottish coin is going to be King Alexander III(1249-86) - over 50 million pennies were estimated to have been minted.  Of course there are no where near 50 million now, but the coinage from that reign is far more numerous than any other Scottish monarch.

 

I have a couple of pennies from King John, but they are not imaged.  Coins from his reign are notably scarcer than Alexander III's coinage, but demand is generally fairly low(not a popular monarch like Robert I)

[Egry]

Thanks @UkrainiiVityaz I’ll have a look at those as well. 

[JeandAcre]

Another fun thing about the Alexander IIIs is that, due in large part to their high mintage, as @UkrainiiVityaz noted, they were in circulation throughout the Wars of Liberation, down to the period of Bruce.  ...My only example has certainly 'been through the wars....'

[Nap]

As mentioned, Scottish medieval coins are tougher than the contemporary English coins.  The earlier pennies of William the Lion and Alexander III are much more common than the pennies of Alexander II, John Balliol, and Robert I.  Pennies of David II and Robert II are a little easier.  Pennies of Robert III and all the James' are also tough.  Easier to find the groats.  Medieval Scottish coins are a remarkably tough collection to build.  Once you get to Mary Queen of Scots and James VI (James I of England) the coins become a bit easier.

My Scottish collection is still missing a coin of Robert I (the Bruce).  Also of Malcolm IV, which is nearly impossible to find.

Here is a penny of John Balliol:

Edited July 17, 2022 by Nap

[UkrainiiVityaz]

Coins from Robert I and Mary are the most popular because of the associations of their reigns, actually Robert I's pennies are more common than John Balliols, but nobody cares too much for the "Toom Tabard" - empty coat monarch but everybody wants Robert I's coinage.  Queen Mary's pennies are the rarest of the bunch, by then a fairly small denomination that had been devalued by inflation and actually much scarcer than many other reign's pennies.

Pennies in 90 percent bronze and 10 percent silver were the first of very few coins struck in Scotland bearing a portrait of Mary, this as an infant. This particular coin is from the first coinage with the portrait of Mary with an arched crown, a particularly rare coin, struck in small quantities, and one of the few with Mary crowned on a coin. The legend on the front of the coin is + MARIA D G R SCOTORVM whilst the reverse is OPIDVM EDNBVR.

Provenance:
Ex David McDonald Collection (Dix Noonan Webb 63, 7 October 2004), lot 710

[Steve]

Egry => I absolutely "love" the cool coin that you've targeted (the sword is a very sweet image)

Oh, and that is very nice of you to buy your sick friend a gift (I'm sure that he'll appreciate it)

 

It reminds me of a couple of great coins that I once owned, from Lorraine ... 

 

 

... you sound like a great friend (very supportive) 

=> keep that up!

🙂

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Steve

[UkrainiiVityaz]

Trying to find images of my several Balliol pennies, but more importantly my Robert I penny.  My coins and records on them are fairly organized, images not so much.

 

This is one of the scarcer varieties of a lesser mint - 22 pts in the stars was likely minted in Roxburgh.  The 24 pt pennies are the most common and were likely minted in Berwick.  All of John Balliols' pennies were minted in Berwick as were Robert I's.

[UkrainiiVityaz]

 

Bought this John Balliol penny at auction awhile back, on the cheap.  Not sure why people need to put these things in these ridiculous pronged thingamajigs, but eventually I am going to free John boy from his plastic tomb.  Crazily enough because of the venue it was being sold on, it did not attract many bids and I got it for far less than many of my Alexander III pennies that I bought years ago.  I almost never buy common stuff anymore - only stuff that is overlooked and a great rarity.

[JeandAcre]

22 hours ago, UkrainiiVityaz said:

Trying to find images of my several Balliol pennies, but more importantly my Robert I penny.  My coins and records on them are fairly organized, images not so much.

 

This is one of the scarcer varieties of a lesser mint - 22 pts in the stars was likely minted in Roxburgh.  The 24 pt pennies are the most common and were likely minted in Berwick.  All of John Balliols' pennies were minted in Berwick as were Robert I's.

...Well, you warned us about your level of organization --Teacher, I Raise My Hand-- but, wainnaminnit, that's an Alexander!  Hope you can find a Robert I; that would be Very cool to see.  --For that matter, both those last two are solid.