Busted!

[KenDorney]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/busted-thousands-of-ancient-coins-and-arrowheads-seized-from-northern-israel-home/

[Al Kowsky]

That's great, now they can sit in a government warehouse for eternity for just a few people to see 😏.

[KenDorney]

2 minutes ago, Al Kowsky said:

That's great, now they can sit in a government warehouse for eternity for just a few people to see 😏.

That's about the extent of it.  Likely never to be seen again.  They already have millions of this type of thing in storage.  I'm a big fan of the UK Treasure Trove law.

[Oldhoopster]

I don't see why other countries don't implement similar programs. Its a win for the finder, it protects significant rare pieces for museums, archeologist can get info and excavate the site if warranted, and collectors have the opportunity to acquire and study the coins.  Win win all around

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[jfp7375]

I get that they want to deter people from stumbling across an important archaeological site, monkeying around, and breaking something invaluable.

but this doesn’t seem like the right solution at all. The vast majority of these finds are just metal detectorists turning up coins and small artifacts. While these harsh 0 tolerance laws theoretically deter anyone from searching in the first place, it also incentivizes breaking the law if you know you cannot keep and will not be compensated for the item. Feels awfully unfair in 95% of cases. 

Im not sure what the right balance is, but probably the UK law is the best we’ve got in the world today. It certainly is the fairest and most effective policy for the vast majority of these small scale finds, and surely some modification could be made to prevent people from getting into big sites or attempting to excavate larger/more unusual items. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by jfp7375

[John Conduitt]

I believe the Dutch have a similar scheme to the British https://portable-antiquities.nl/pan/#/public

[JeandAcre]

Huge thanks for the link, @John Conduitt!!!  Never heard of it; bookmarked.

(Edit:) And everyone else said all I could have on the subject.  ...From the UKDFD and UK PAS, you can get the sense of a genuine collaboration between responsible detectorists (to all appearances, the vast majority) and museums and related institutions.  And knowledge itself is advanced more efficiently than any other way I can imagine.

Edited July 13, 2022 by JeandAcre

[Severus Alexander]

Just resharing my expression of appreciation for the PAS from an old thread.  I put quite a lot of work into this comment so want people to read it. 😄

The people in the first photo in the OP article look like they'd like to take some of those things home... too bad they can't!  And too bad all the information about the stuff will probably never come out because the cataloguing will never all be done!

Edited July 14, 2022 by Severus Alexander

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, Severus Alexander said:

Just resharing my expression of appreciation for the PAS from an old thread.  I put quite a lot of work into this comment so want people to read it. 😄

The people in the first photo in the OP article look like they'd like to take some of those things home... too bad they can't!  And too bad all the information about the stuff will probably never come out because the cataloguing will never all be done!

To be fair, I think archaeological finds, including coins, in Israel (whether objects found in sanctioned excavations or confiscated/relinquished finds by individuals) are far less likely to spend eternity languishing uncatalogued and uninventoried in a basement somewhere than in many other countries. Without doing research, I suspect their budget for archaeology, museums, etc. is, proportionately speaking, higher than just about anywhere else. For obvious reasons that this isn't an appropriate place to discuss.  Clearly, however, the system in the UK (and apparently in the Netherlands) appears to be the best for all interested parties. In certain places in Eastern Europe especially -- but in Western Europe as well, for instance what I've read about Italy -- it appears to be the worst.

Edited July 14, 2022 by DonnaML

[Severus Alexander]

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

To be fair, I think archaeological finds, including coins, in Israel (whether objects found in sanctioned excavations or confiscated/relinquished finds by individuals) are far less likely to spend eternity languishing uncatalogued and uninventoried in a basement somewhere than in many other countries. Without doing research, I suspect their budget for archaeology, museums, etc. is, proportionately speaking, higher than just about anywhere else. For obvious reasons that this isn't an appropriate place to discuss.  Clearly, however, the system in the UK (and apparently in the Netherlands) appears to be the best for all interested parties. In certain places in Eastern Europe especially -- but in Western Europe as well, for instance what I've read about Italy -- it appears to be the worst.

Yes, I agree on all points, and I think you're right about the higher budget in Israel.  Still, it's an interesting question whether the UK system would be better there too, even if funding for archaeology were ideal.  I suspect (as you seem to also) that the answer is yes!

Edited July 14, 2022 by Severus Alexander

[DonnaML]

6 minutes ago, Severus Alexander said:

Yes, I agree on all points, and I think you're right about the higher budget in Israel.  Still, it's an interesting question whether the UK system would be better there too, even if funding for archaeology were ideal.  I suspect (as you seem to also) that the answer is yes!

Absolutely!

[robinjojo]

The finding of antiquates and coins has long been a game of Whac-a-mole for the authorities.  Not only are antiquities and coins from Israel being exported without authorization, but coins and objects from neighboring countries, particularly Syria, a conflict zone, and Jordan, are finding their way through Israel and on to overseas collectors, through auctions, dealer price lists or direct sales.  

I agree that archeological sites need to be preserved and protected.  Newly discovered sites should also come under this umbrella.  However, as noted earlier, many coins coming to the market are from metal detector finds of individual coins and hoards of varying sizes.   

Yes, a UK/Dutch type system would be desirable, but how to implement it in Israel, which includes the strife-ridden occupied West Bank, would be problematic.  It just seems to me that in order for such a system to be successfully implemented, conflict needs to end, not only in Israel, but throughout the region.

[AussieCollector]

On 7/13/2022 at 5:11 PM, Al Kowsky said:

That's great, now they can sit in a government warehouse for eternity for just a few people to see 😏.

Exactly! So good to see coins and artifacts gathering dust in museums, never to be seen or enjoyed again.