Ryro Posted February 29 · Supporter Share Posted February 29 Here is a strange little "shield coin" that has been sitting in my needs a correct identification pile for a few months now. I purchased from a trusted auction house, Olympus. They had it listed as a type that I can't find anywhere: CARIA. Hydisos. Ae (Circa 200-100 BC). AE Bronze (15.1mm 3.8g) Obv: YΔI / ΣEΩN head of zeus r. Rev: shield ...Only it is not a shield on the reverse at all (at least I don't think it is anymore)! After spending a couple of months trying to find the shield coin that this is listed as I realized that I should have looked at the picture closer. I was rolling the coin around in my hand looking at it when I realized that the top looks a lot like the Solar Disk crown that Isis sometimes wears! The photographer even has the coin situated correctly with the horns at the top. The only issue is that "Hathor's Crown" only has 2 bull horns on the sides of the disk. So my "revelation" kind of feels like I am back to square one as I have searched using the Greek lettering, Zeus, crown, Isis, etc. and came up with nothing. I'd been bugging a good coin buddy on what he thought it might be and he initially thought it could be Pseudo-autonomous from the Antonines or Severans, or a 3rd - 2nd century BC Greek. The closest in style that I've found are these Pseudo-autonomous coins from Pitane that do indeed have shields (with cool pentagram bosses). I have two of them: MYSIA. Pitane. Pseudo-autonomous. Time of Domitian (81-96). Ae. Obv: ΘЄA PΩMH. Turreted head of Roma right. Rev: ΠITANAIΩN. Pentagram within shield. RPC II -; RPC Supp. II 956B var. (obv. legend); SNG von Aulock 1431; SNG Copenhagen 539. Condition: Very fine. Weight: 2.03 g. Diameter: 17 mm. Purchased from Savoca Feb 2022 But I don't think they are related to my latest mystery. Any ideas on this ugly little mystery that I probably paid too much for thinking it was a rare shield coin are appreciated? 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted March 1 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 1 This is definitely a tough little puzzle coin! I wasn't able to find anything, but it certainly looks like the reverse is upside down. There's some text there but the wear + lighting + photo make it difficult to decipher. It appears there are the letters ΣΕΓ on the obverse, possibly followed by Ν, but I could find no matches for that text. Seuthes does begin with ΣΕΓ but this isn't one of his coins. I also don't see how it could by Hydosis. The reverse resembles somewhat some of the Koinon of Macedon issues. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metapontius Posted March 1 · Member Share Posted March 1 There are three other coins in acsearch with the same script: YΔI – ΣEΩN All of these coins have been identified as Hydisos. That may the source of the Olympus identification. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted March 1 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 1 3 hours ago, metapontius said: There are three other coins in acsearch with the same script: YΔI – ΣEΩN All of these coins have been identified as Hydisos. That may the source of the Olympus identification. Definitely looks like an Omega. I'm not sure how I missed that, so I see the ΣEΩN but I'm not sure I agree it's YΔI before that. A number of cities ended in ΣEΩN. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted March 1 · Member Share Posted March 1 (edited) I confirm that Ryro performed a serious research and I was hoping to help but I couldn't. Last night I researched all the Hydisus coins I could find (I am not sure if this is a Greek or a pseudoautonomous coin) but nothing is remotely related. Then, even if I am fairly sure the obverse legend ends in ΣEΩN I am not that sure it starts with YΔI so this could mean a different city - perhaps Iasus? This is exactly the type of coin I find the most challenging - the condition is good enough, but I am not sure at all of 3 things (and they would surely clarify - Obverse legend. - Obverse character. Zeus? Demos? Someone else? - reverse image - shield? (I would say it is indeed a shield). Isis headdress? Something else? In the meantime I messaged an expert I know. I only bother him on extremely difficult questions, and this looks like one. Edited March 1 by ambr0zie 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted March 1 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 1 No more luck here, but a search picked up the following cities who minted coins with the city name ending in ΣEΩN. Moriaseis MOPIAΣEΩN Telmessos TEΛMH/ΣEΩN Mylasa MYΛA-ΣEΩN Tarsos TAΡΣEΩN Sagalassos ΣAΓA-Λ-A-ΣΣEΩN Termessos TEPMHΣ-ΣEΩN Halikarnassos AΛIKAΡN-AΣΣEΩN Hydrisos HΔI/ΣEΩN Prymnessos ΠPY MNH Σ/ΣEΩN Thasos ΘAΣEΩN Iasos IAΣEΩN Pedasa ΠHΔAΣEΩN Abbaitis MYΣEΩN ABBAITΩN Plarasa [ΠΛΑP]AΣEΩN Since there appears to be a Λ, Δ, or A in the first part of the inscription, the list isn't really shortened from it. I looked at the coinage for most of these and didn't find any similarities on either the obverse or the reverse. Perhaps if we had any idea who was depicted on the obverse, or a better photo would help illuminate what appears to be an inscription on the reverse (which I think is upside-down), then that may help. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted March 1 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 1 (edited) @Ryro A bit off topic, but maybe of interest: In trying to figure this out, I happened on this very rare, cool and tiny (10 mm) little shield from Mylasa, sold by Naumann in 2017. I'd never seen this. Are you aware of it (or have several already in your comprehensive armory, lol?) Naumann gives this attribution (I haven't checked): Imhoof, MG, p. 312, 67-8. Missing in the excellent Asia Minor Coins website. Edited March 1 by Phil Davis 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted March 1 · Member Share Posted March 1 It's listed in Asia Minor Coins https://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=218&pid=14553#top_display_media Another example with a clear description- https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9588951 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted March 1 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, ambr0zie said: It's listed in Asia Minor Coins https://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=218&pid=14553#top_display_media Another example with a clear description- https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9588951 Oops! I borrowed that factoid from the Naumann listing. I should've taken the time to check instead of being lazy; clearly Asia Minor coins saw that coin and added it. Edited March 1 by Phil Davis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted March 1 · Member Share Posted March 1 (edited) I will post this for other people who might be interested (I already discussed with Ryro). The coin is a very interesting one. After failing to get a right attribution I requested help from a gentleman who is extremely skilled in attributing coins (unfortunately he is not able to join our community - the reasons are objective and I will not say more about this). His verdict: - the reverse depics a stylized Greek version of the headdress of Isis - it appears to be an unpublished variety from Iasus in Caria (this was my guess as well) - similar to https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4337810 but from a different time ( another example - https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/11830?fbclid=IwAR3ko_oQc9RMibwvizzLkgGf-P3Ue7Hq4JnnC3Gga_2jmvHxovVjfVd0dqU ) - he suspects 1st century BC - 1st century AD period. I personally trust him a lot as I seeked his help a few times, for coins I found impossible (and I never give up easily) but he always got the correct attribution. Edited March 1 by ambr0zie 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted March 1 · Supporter Author Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, ambr0zie said: I will post this for other people who might be interested (I already discussed with Ryro). The coin is a very interesting one. After failing to get a right attribution I requested help from a gentleman who is extremely skilled in attributing coins (unfortunately he is not able to join our community - the reasons are objective and I will not say more about this). His verdict: - the reverse depics a stylized Greek version of the headdress of Isis - it appears to be an unpublished variety from Iasus in Caria (this was my guess as well) - similar to https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4337810 but from a different time ( another example - https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/11830?fbclid=IwAR3ko_oQc9RMibwvizzLkgGf-P3Ue7Hq4JnnC3Gga_2jmvHxovVjfVd0dqU ) - he suspects 1st century BC - 1st century AD period. I personally trust him a lot as I seeked his help a few times, for coins I found impossible (and I never give up easily) but he always got the correct attribution. Many thanks for all your help, thanks to your friend and all my NF buddies for helping as well! I have submitted it to RPC with your identification and am already eager to hear back (hopefully it doesn't get set aside by whomever is in charge of this borderline area). And I wonder if it will qualify as provincial at all or just Greek? Will we ever know?? @Phil Davis I was an under under bidder for the one @ambr0zie referenced from Nomos Obols. And after seeing the example from Naumann I NEED one of the type! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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