Attention with my Ex-Denarius Crawford RRC 159/2 Anonym Fly Series

[Prieure de Sion]

I don't know if anyone here bids on Catawiki. 

My former Republican is coming up for auction again. I have also already informed Catawiki - but you never know. Sometimes you report clear fakes and Catawiki doesn't react.

It's about this denarius or this auction:

https://www.catawiki.com/de/l/60333235-romische-republik-ar-anonymous-denarius-fly-series-rome-mint-179-170-b-c-fly-series-luna-in-biga-right-fly-below

 

This is my former denarius. I bought the coin at this auction house at the end of 2021. Not at Catawiki - but an auction at biddr, where this seller had held his own auction. Later, I wanted to pass on the denarius - unfortunately, it immediately failed an examination by experts - such as Naumann, Vienna - who recognised the denarius as a flawless casting forgery. You can also see this on the obverse - if you hold the denarius in your hand - you can also see traces of feil. 

I was able to return the denarius to the auction house at the beginning of 2022. I was somewhat surprised when the denarius ended up in a Catawiki auction a few days later! Although the auction house / the seller knew about the expertises.

And now, in the middle of 2022, this denarius comes up for auction again from the same auction house! I assume that the buyer of the last auction also returned it? As written - I have informed Catawiki about this - but it is not known whether they will end the auction.

If any of you would like to bid on it - I would advise against it. It has been identified as a very likely fake and has passed through several hands now.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[John Conduitt]

This is disappointing. Obviously, Catawiki is more like a regulated eBay than a normal auction house and they don't get to see the coins in hand, but you'd hope they wouldn't list known fakes. They don't tend to offer the bargains eBay does, so if they don't even filter the fakes...

[Kamnaskires]

One must be very careful navigating Catawiki for anything ancient. With regard to artifacts, there are always plenty of fakes and kosher-but-misattributed lots listed along with solidly-researched authentic items. There are good players and bad. At least one seller listed on Forum’s Notorious Fake Sellers List and Warren Esty’s fake sellers list pushes his crap on Catawiki under another store name. The so-called Catawiki experts who do the vetting have received much criticism (deserved, it would seem) on the AncientArtifacts group.io page, where I lurk a lot. The criticism comes from a handful of contributors to that forum who are scary good - truly knowledgeable individuals with genuine expertise. One of those forum members posts a recurring, very detailed monthly assessment of Catawiki’s recent listings of ancient brooches, his particular area of emphasis. In his posts, which are essentially newsletters, he pretty much decimates, through cited impressive scholarship, that month’s listings. It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that the vetting at Catawiki is very lax. It’s particularly unfortunate because, as I said, there are good guys there too. As with eBay or anywhere else, caveat emptor applies.

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Kamnaskires

[Prieure de Sion]

I don't even want to directly blame the Catawiki expert. I don't understand several things here.

Why was the dealer allowed to sell the coin again the first time after I had reported it as a 99.99% fake? And why is this coin now being sold for the third time within 1/2 year? And now for the second time even on Catawiki? What are the administrators doing there? Asleep?

And the second criticism goes to the dealer himself. He knows the expert opinions of Naumann and Co, who have identified the denarius as a casting forgery by 99.99%. Why does he sell the denarius directly afterwards? Why is he now selling it on for the third time?

But ok. I can't prevent all the counterfeits in the world. But in this case, I know my ex-denarius. And I know the background. That's why I didn't want to keep quiet about it. And not that someone would bid money on it here.

[Prieure de Sion]

Ah cool, the support wirkte me sorry about that. They remember this coin and say sorry that it’s possible try again to sold. So they delete the auction of this one. 

[JayAg47]

Do you have any pictures of the coin, looks like they took it off from the site.

Edited July 11, 2022 by JayAg47

[Prieure de Sion]

2 hours ago, JayAg47 said:

Do you have any pictures of the coin, looks like they took it off from the site.

You are right, of course! The denarius will probably turn up again somewhere - and since the auction and the picture have been deleted - no one can do anything with the warning. Therefore, here is the picture - in case someone sees this denarius appear somewhere else.

Why is it a fake? Some Expert (Auctions Houses) have the Denarius in his hands. They say its a Casting Fake. If you hold the denarius in your hand and look at it yourself, you can also see the file marks on the obverse with which the burr was ground off. But you can't see that directly in the pictures.

Anonymus Denar of Roman Republic
"Fly Series", 179 - 170 BC
Mint: Titus Sempronius Musca (?)
Crawford RRC 159/2
http://numismatics.org/crro/id/rrc-159.2

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

here is the picture

Is there a fuller description that would come up on search engines? Or is 159/2 enough?

[Prieure de Sion]

9 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Is there a fuller description that would come up on search engines? Or is 159/2 enough?

Thats correct also... I edit the Topic Description and more details.

[antwerpen2306]

I am happy I don t buy on sites as catawiki, ebay.. and only by well known dealers and one coin shop in Brussels. What I don't understand : this seller is also on Vcoins and on biddr. Is nobody making a control to check the seller ? Catawiki I understand, everybody can sell everything, it is a kind of ebay, but a little bit more expensive and the experts is only, IMO, for the image.