Jump to content

A Coin Quandary


kirispupis

Recommended Posts

  • Benefactor

Recently, I had the following discussion with myself concerning a coin.

Me: Wow! That's a nice and really interesting tetartamorion from Naxos!

Myself: Yes. Move along now. Nothing to see here...

Me: But we have a soft spot for coins from the Cyclades.

Myself: Yeah, but this is an archaic coin. We don't collect those.

Me: But this one is cute, and we know the type is rare

Myself: But the age puts it outside our main collecting area

Me: But look how cheap it is!

Myself: Sorry, not buying it. We already have an example from Naxos.

That night, I work on coin stories for my website. It just happens that the next coin in line is Naxos. I complete that, and a few coins down the line another story mentions Naxos.

Me: It's fate! We need to buy it!

Myself: Nah. It's probably from a seller in Germany. Not worth paying the shipping.

Me: (looks up the seller) He's in the next county! We go birding there all the time.

Myself: Okay, here's what we're going to do. We'll sleep on it. Most likely someone will grab it overnight.

Me: sniffling Okay...

The next morning the coin is still available

Me: Yeah! Let's buy it!

Myself: FIne! But just so you know our photo of it will probably suck.

 

Naxos_tetart.jpg.f2e8f1503662908b25d05670cb543283.jpg

Cyclades, Naxos
AR Tetartemorion 5mm .12g
520-470 BCE
Obv: Kantharos
Rev: Quadripartite incuse square
HGC 6, 627

 

Please share your coins where you just felt you had to acquire it!

  • Like 21
  • Big Smile 2
  • Laugh 2
  • Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great little Tetartemorion! I'm sure it's wonderful in hand. I have a special fondness for the tiny Greek AR fractions. They're really amazing coins. But very hard to capture in photos how charming coins they are.

I don't have any from Naxos -- or from the Cyclades at all, I don't think. But I have other coins that small. Here's one with almost the same measurements (also weighing under 1/8 of a gram). And it fits your prompt of coins "you had to acquire":

IwdlMBq.jpeg

 

image.jpeg.221bded0a965413771ac207fd256176d.jpeg

Caria, Hekatomnos (?) AR Hemitetartemorion (Milesian standard; 4mm, 0.12g). Uncertain mint, c. 392-377 BCE.
Obv: Head of ram right.
Rev: Bare head of young male right; in right field, ΕΚ (for Hekatomnos?).
Ref: One of four examples cited in HNO Caria (K. Konuk, editor). 
HN Online 1922.3 [this coin, id = 6188].
Prov: Ex Elvira Clain-Stefanelli (1914-2001) Collection; ex 
Naville Auction 34 (16 September 2017), Lot 70 [unsold, and subsequent sales].

  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both cool coins, although the Naxos gets a bit lost against that black background. 

What's really amazing is that a coin that small is also incuse!

Here's a tiny example from Taras with much simpler devices...

Taras, Calabria

480-470 BC
AR Hexas (5mm, 0.08g)
O: Scallop shell with 7 teeth, within linear border.
R: Wheel with four spokes.
D'Andrea IV, 78; Vlasto 1118; SNG France 1617; HN Italy 836
Very scarce
From the E.E. Clain-Stephanelli collection. ex Naville Numismatics

I had to have it because I didn't have it, and the danger of specializing is you must jump on a rarity or risk missing it forever.

At least that's what I'm telling myself.

~ Peter 

V_1118~3.jpg

Edited by Phil Anthos
  • Like 12
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent write up! You had me in stitches. Do we all go through the same mental gymnastics when we see a coin outside of our general collecting area??

And I didn't know you were a bird lover!? My wife and I go birding often. 

Freakin archaic coins. They just love being so hard to say no to:

2397956_1638184646.l-removebg-preview.png.d9789546b259c665780da97bfb039225.png

4335482_1690272629.l.jpg

IMG_0468.PNG.8d371ea9aee103a9c285b62f680a3d25.png

1237042_1591773315-removebg-preview.png

1146366_1587827106-removebg-preview.png

IMG_4412.JPG.f9e7b84c4ecdda7e3a29587e0eacde52.jpeg

1753497_1614964999.l (2).jpg

1266142_1593782816.l-removebg-preview.png.3bf084e415d1a93c2ea6c46035af0a4c.png

  • Like 9
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
12 minutes ago, Ryro said:

Excellent write up! You had me in stitches. Do we all go through the same mental gymnastics when we see a coin outside of our general collecting area??

And I didn't know you were a bird lover!? My wife and I go birding often. 

Freakin archaic coins. They just love being so hard to say no to:

 

Thanks! I'm obviously jealous of the Kroisos.

I spend a lot of time birding, though I'm more into bird photography. Most of the photos not of coins on my photo roll are of birds - https://www.flickr.com/photos/calevphoto/

The coins are a bit overrepresented there right now because I've been busy photographing them for my upcoming website.

  • Thanks 1
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't normally collect small, semi-autonomous AE's from the Levant. But the combination of good general strike/condition, historical interest (struck around the time and place of the New Testament), rarity, and cheap price, was too good to pass up.

Plus, it is now the illustrated specimen - the only one pictured, actually - for RPC Online

PhoeniciaTyreRPC4739.jpg.4eb4c5751f773c0929d84d654b685910.jpg

PHOENICIA, TYRE
Time of Nero
AE (13.75mm, 3.06g, 12h)
Struck AD 54/5
Obverse: Veiled head of Tyche with palm right
Reverse: ΤΥ ΙΕΡΑ ΑΣΥ, 𐤋𐤑𐤓, ΡΠ, palm tree
References: RPC Online, Vol. I, 4739 (this coin)
A scarce type with good surfaces and detail.

 

RPC I, 4739 (ox.ac.uk)

Screenshot_8-2-2024_181425_rpc.ashmus_ox_ac_uk.jpeg.ae62866fdbc997a7ed5e9d3b43b2bbcb.jpeg

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
21 minutes ago, Brennos said:

Very nice catch, i love the Kantharos !

Don't you think that a photo with a white background might be better ?  

The real problem isn't the background but my lighting. The system I have right now isn't ideal for very small coins because it's extremely difficult to get them to lay flat on the velvet I use for a background and that results in uneven axial lighting. I've tried using my twin-light on them without the axial, but found that looks even worse because it loses depth.

There are two main reasons I don't use white backgrounds:

  1. I don't like the look of them
  2. My website is designed with a black background and every coin image I have uses it

At this point, I'm sticking with the shitty system I have because my full efforts have been on my website. After that, I'll look into building a new coin photography setup and I'll re-photograph coins like these whose images suck.

FWIW, this coin is nearly as small and used the identical setup, but I had better luck in getting it to lay flat, so the image is much better.

myrmekion.jpg.fd0f985cc9c7e4c99276d5217d558d34.jpg

Cimmerian Bosporos, Myrmekion
Circa 470-460 BCE
AR Tetartemorion 5 mm, 0.22 g
Ant seen from above.
Rev. Quadripartite incuse square, pellets in two opposing compartments.
HGC 7, 54. MacDonald 6

  • Like 10
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/8/2024 at 11:28 PM, kirispupis said:

Recently, I had the following discussion with myself concerning a coin.

Me: Wow! That's a nice and really interesting tetartamorion from Naxos!

Myself: Yes. Move along now. Nothing to see here...

Me: But we have a soft spot for coins from the Cyclades.

Myself: Yeah, but this is an archaic coin. We don't collect those.

Me: But this one is cute, and we know the type is rare

Myself: But the age puts it outside our main collecting area

Me: But look how cheap it is!

Myself: Sorry, not buying it. We already have an example from Naxos.

That night, I work on coin stories for my website. It just happens that the next coin in line is Naxos. I complete that, and a few coins down the line another story mentions Naxos.

Me: It's fate! We need to buy it!

Myself: Nah. It's probably from a seller in Germany. Not worth paying the shipping.

Me: (looks up the seller) He's in the next county! We go birding there all the time.

Myself: Okay, here's what we're going to do. We'll sleep on it. Most likely someone will grab it overnight.

Me: sniffling Okay...

The next morning the coin is still available

Me: Yeah! Let's buy it!

Myself: FIne! But just so you know our photo of it will probably suck.

 

Naxos_tetart.jpg.f2e8f1503662908b25d05670cb543283.jpg

Cyclades, Naxos
AR Tetartemorion 5mm .12g
520-470 BCE
Obv: Kantharos
Rev: Quadripartite incuse square
HGC 6, 627

 

Please share your coins where you just felt you had to acquire it!

Is the attribution to Naxos supported by any references? Looking at the source of such coins dispersed in the recent years, Asia minor appears more probable...

Edited by ajax
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
3 hours ago, ajax said:

Is the attribution to Naxos supported by any references? Looking at the source of such coins dispersed in the recent years, Asia minor appears more probable...

The source I see cited most often (though I don't own myself) is HGC 6, 627. CNG also cited Sheedy 66 (050/R-). However, I don't have that reference either.

This coin closely matches the known staters of Naxos from this period on both the reverse and the obverse. Those coins at least were found on Naxos. Therefore, this attribution was either from the extreme similarity to coins found on Naxos or due to being found on Naxos themselves.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just took a look at Sheedy and coin #66 is this coin in the British Museum:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1938-1007-179

It was donated to the BM by Stanley Robinson in 1938 and the accompanying ticket has "Lesbos hoard" written on it. That could point to either a Cycladic or Asia Minor or Lesbos origin. Sheedy mentions this coin in one sentence. He seems to accept the attribution to Naxos but a footnote says "A study of this coin is to be published by E. Kosmidou." Sheedy might have accepted the BM attribution for now, waiting for Kosmidou to evaluate it more thoroughly. I can't find a publication of this coin by E. Kosmidou, so the publication is probably still pending. E. Kosmidou must be Elpida Kosmidou.

https://ucl.academia.edu/ElpidaKosmidou

Perhaps someone could contact her and ask her current thoughts on the attribution of this coin type, particularly with the new examples that have appeared on the market since Sheedy's study was published.

 

 

 

 

Edited by khaghogh
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few more possibly relevant points. Sheedy says the coin was 'recently discovered', although it was donated to the BM in 1938. Possibly this means that the coin was in the BM's unattributed trays and someone (E. Kosmidou?) saw it and suggested the Naxos attribution. It's also noteworthy that in Sheedy's study (published in 2006) it is the only example of this type known to him. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
1 hour ago, khaghogh said:

A few more possibly relevant points. Sheedy says the coin was 'recently discovered', although it was donated to the BM in 1938. Possibly this means that the coin was in the BM's unattributed trays and someone (E. Kosmidou?) saw it and suggested the Naxos attribution. It's also noteworthy that in Sheedy's study (published in 2006) it is the only example of this type known to him. 

Interesting. I count 21 examples on ACSearch, and mine was from VCoins. All of those examples sold after 2016. 

The Naxos attribution certainly makes a lot of sense given its similarity to their staters. I assume Sheedy wouldn't have attributed it to Naxos if Kosmidou believed it was from somewhere else, unless she was unsure at the time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...