Any experience with Export Certificate from France?

[savitale]

Have any of you purchased a coin that required an Export Certificate from France? If so, what was your experience? How did you go about obtaining it?

I have obtained French export certificates for other collectibles, not coins. The process could be painful and took 2 to 6 months. I am curious to hear if it is any different for coins. 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I've bought less than 10 coins from France.  These included coins all over the board; 2nd century Sestertii, 3rd century Ants, 3rd century Antioch.  All were normal orders.

[Deinomenid]

I've had very  mixed success, some arriving days later, some  taking many months. I *think*  it's something to do with value thresholds. As in  purely  price of an  object.

 

[Deinomenid]

This article might help. I'm guessing coins worth 1.5k or more were an issue. But the threshold was raised.

I remember the seller  getting angry about  it as the criterion was monetary. Reductio ad absurdum  you pay  $5k for  a modern US nickel  in  France, they  make it hard for you,  but you pay  1 cent for a  rate Greek ancient,  you can get  it the next day.

 

 

[savitale]

2 hours ago, Deinomenid said:

This article might help. I'm guessing coins worth 1.5k or more were an issue. But the threshold was raised.

Yes, that is correct. The threshold for ancient coins is 1500 Euro.

[Sol_Invictus]

According to the terms and conditions for the latest cgb.fr auction:

“3.6 Export: In the case of coins that are dated prior to 1500 with a unitary value above 3,000 Euros, French law relating to the protection of cultural property requires us always to apply to the Ministry of Culture for an export certificate (and an export licence for countries outside the EU). The time period for obtaining these documents is usually about 8 to 10 weeks. Certificates issued are valid indefinitely.”

So I gather the value is now 3000 euro for requiring a French export license.

 

[DonnaML]

3 hours ago, Deinomenid said:

Reductio ad absurdum  you pay  $5k for  a modern US nickel  in  France, they  make it hard for you,  but you pay  1 cent for a  rate Greek ancient,  you can get  it the next day.

It's not quite that bad, because the rule apparently applies only to coins from before AD 1500. Perhaps there are some U.S. nickels minted by Columbus in 1492, but I doubt it. Still, it's absurd that the rule apparently applies regardless of where a coin originates. Once somebody buys it and it arrives in France, it can't leave again without an export permit. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by DonnaML

[savitale]

9 hours ago, Sol_Invictus said:

According to the terms and conditions for the latest cgb.fr auction:

“3.6 Export: In the case of coins that are dated prior to 1500 with a unitary value above 3,000 Euros, French law relating to the protection of cultural property requires us always to apply to the Ministry of Culture for an export certificate (and an export licence for countries outside the EU). The time period for obtaining these documents is usually about 8 to 10 weeks. Certificates issued are valid indefinitely.”

So I gather the value is now 3000 euro for requiring a French export license.

 

Hmmm ... The terms and conditions of the sale I am looking at state "The lot will be delivered to the buyer after full payment of the price, costs and taxes.
For coins dating from before 1500 and worth more than 1500 euros and for coins dating between 1500 and 1922 and worth more than 15000 euros a Cultural item export certificate is required for the shipment in Europe, outside of Europe to this document is added an export license."

Maybe they have not updated their T&C to reflect the new limits. Unfortunately in my case the Export Certificate is still likely. It sounds like maybe some of @Deinomenid coins went through the process although it was transparent to him (except for the delay in shipping). That would be nice.

[Deinomenid]

@savitale just guessing  if at the seller as they are higher than minimum certificate value coins - if the house you are using  is Prunier gird  your loins. They are exceptionally difficult to deal with if  outside the country. You'll effectively need to appoint an agent to take  possession. Or at least I had to.

If Vinchon, way less bad but expect or at least be prepared for a long (5 months for me) wait.

[savitale]

10 hours ago, Deinomenid said:

@savitale just guessing  if at the seller as they are higher than minimum certificate value coins - if the house you are using  is Prunier gird  your loins. They are exceptionally difficult to deal with if  outside the country. You'll effectively need to appoint an agent to take  possession. Or at least I had to.

If Vinchon, way less bad but expect or at least be prepared for a long (5 months for me) wait.

It's neither of those. But I do appreciate the information. I have had similar experiences with other collectibles and it has made me decide not to bid a few times when I otherwise would have. A hobby isn't supposed to add stress to my life.