JAZ Numismatics Coin of the Day, 3/13/2023: Thessalian League Stater

[JAZ Numismatics]

I hope this is permissible - I would like to discuss a coin that I happen to have for sale. I know that we have The Cabinet here, but I would like to do more than just list it. If I'm out of bounds, the thread can be deleted with no hard feelings on my part.

Today's featured coin is a denarius of T. Vettius Sabinus, struck 66 BC. According to the Roman foundation myth, Titus Tatius, king of the Sabines, attacked Rome in retaliation for the infamous Rape of the Sabine Women, an incident in which the men of Rome committed a mass abduction of women from neighboring tribes. (That subject is depicted on two denarius types of Lucius Titurius Sabinus, 89 BC.) Ironically, it was the abducted Sabine women that convinced both sides to reconcile. Romulus and Tatius ruled Rome jointly, and the Sabines were gradually integrated into Roman culture.

The reverse of the coin poses a bit of an enigma. The word IVDEX means "judge" (more properly "arbiter") but there was no such formal office, and any magistrate could be called "IVDEX." Michael Harlan suggests that the figure in the biga is the moneyer himself, who may be the same Titus Vettius who served as Quaestor in Sicily circa 73 BC. The grain ear would refer to Sicily, Rome's chief grain supplier.

I have a very pleasing VF example of this type for sale at vcoins here. For comparison, here are some auctions at CNG. Almost all of the CNG coins are in grades of EF and higher, so they hammer between $600 and $2500. My coin is offered at $350, which is a great price for a scarce type that's well-struck with smooth, clean surfaces and no damage!

ROMAN REPUBLIC. T Vettius Sabinus. AR Serrate Denarius, 4.0g, 20mm, 6h; Rome mint, 66 BC. Obv: SABINVS; S.C; Bare and bearded head of King Tatius to right; below chin, monogram TA. Rev.: IVDEX / T.VETTCS; Togate figure in low biga to left, holding reins in his right hand and scepter in his left; behind, grain ears. Ref.: Babelon (Vettia) 2. Crawford 404/1. RBW 1446. Sydenham 905. Ex - Leu Web Auction 18, Lot 2449.

Please post anything you feel is appropriate: your examples of the type, other serrate denarii, slow bigas, anything to do with the Sabines, etc...

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by JAZ Numismatics

[Roman Collector]

That's an interesting issue, @JAZ Numismatics. I have a couple of serrate denarii. This one is from a mint in Narbo.

L. Licinius Crassus and Cn. Domitius Ahenobarbus with L Pomponius, 118 BCE.
Roman AR denarius serratus, 3.91 g, 19.6 mm, 1 h.
Narbo, 118 BCE.
Obv: L POMPONI CNF, head of Roma, right, wearing Attic helmet; X behind.
Rev: Naked Gaulish warrior in biga, right, holding shield, carnyx and reins in left hand and hurling spear with right hand; L·LIC·CN·DOM in exergue.
Refs: Crawford RRC 282/4; BMCRR 1191-93; Sydenham CRR 522a; RSC Pomponia 7a; RCV 158.
 

L. Roscius Fabiatus, 64 BCE.
Roman AR denarius serratus, 3.65 g, 17.5 mm, 5 h.
Rome, 64 BCE.
Obv: L•ROSCI below head of Juno Sospita, right, in goatskin headdress; sack and column behind.
Rev: Woman standing right, facing snake; sella symbol at left; FABATI in exergue.
Refs: Crawford RRC 412/1, table LXVIII-LXIX, 16; BMCRR 412.1.140; Sydenham CRR 915; RCV 363.

[Prieure de Sion]

3 hours ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

I hope this is permissible - I would like to discuss a coin that I happen to have for sale. I know that we have The Cabinet here, but I would like to do more than just list it. If I'm out of bounds, the thread can be deleted with no hard feelings on my part.

One idea for the admins - I dont know its an good idea 😉 

Here are many dealers with an account. 

How about an extra thread? Each dealer (who is registered here) may present one coin from his shop per week in this thread. One "special" coin per week per dealer. And you have to introduce the coin a bit and "tell" something about it.

It's just an idea... 

[JAZ Numismatics]

44 minutes ago, YOTHR said:

One idea for the admins - I dont know its an good idea 😉 

Here are many dealers with an account. 

How about an extra thread? Each dealer (who is registered here) may present one coin from his shop per week in this thread. One "special" coin per week per dealer. And you have to introduce the coin a bit and "tell" something about it.

It's just an idea... 

I like your idea very much, but why only once a week? Why not once a day? A week-old thread gets stale.

[Prieure de Sion]

29 minutes ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

I like your idea very much, but why only once a week? Why not once a day? A week-old thread gets stale.

Yes, of course, that would also work. Everyone can post if they agree that they have a special coin that they would like to present. 

But then I would suggest only one thread for all dealers - and everyone can present his latest "special" coin in this thread again and again (perhaps also with an offer to forum members) - or - every dealer can open his own thread and present his special coin there again and again.

I personally think that each dealer should open a new thread for each new presentation - this would flood the forum with "advertising". 

But one thread for all dealers - or one thread per dealer I think could be OK from my point of view and opinion.

 

But in the end, of course, it's up to the forum management to decide. I am also only a guest here.

[Theodosius]

I like the idea of a thread per seller. All sellers in one thread would be too confusing.

I really like the denarius shown here, just not my collecting area.

John

[kirispupis]

My two obols: I don't mind these posts as long as they tell something interesting about the coin. If the post is "hey! I have this coin for sale so you should buy it", then it'll be a bit frustrating.

However, if it's like this post and talks a bit more about the coin - perhaps delving into the controversy or why this particular specimen is interesting, then IMHO that adds value, can generate discussions beyond just the sale of the coin, and of course helps the seller move the product - so it's a win-win for everyone.

FWIW, I noticed this coin on VCoins before I read about it here. It's definitely an interesting piece and if I hadn't been murdalized on both Savoca and Leu today, and had not recently ordered far too many coins in general, I would have bitten as my first Roman Republican coin.

[JAZ Numismatics]

16 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

...recently ordered far too many coins in general...

The story of my life. First you buy the coins. Then you find  a way to pay for them. Hope that helps!

 

[Prieure de Sion]

3 hours ago, YOTHR said:

And you have to introduce the coin a bit and "tell" something about it.

 

24 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

My two obols: I don't mind these posts as long as they tell something interesting about the coin. If the post is "hey! I have this coin for sale so you should buy it", then it'll be a bit frustrating.

 

That was, what I mean and write...

My opinion - a simple advertisement? No ... if the admins say yes - it must be a win win situation. Because it is the "coin of the day / week" - also tell about the background and history.

[Romismatist]

I would be interested in a thread like that... always up for learning from the experts in this forum, whether they are discussing a coin in their collections or a coin that's for sale.

[Sulla80]

iudex - the “judge,” an unpaid private person chosen from the list (album) drawn up according to wealth to decide a case referred to him by the praetor. If the case was heard by a panel of iudices, they were known as recuperatores.

-The Glossary of Roman Law

 

and a die match from Schaeffer

Edited March 12, 2023 by Sulla80
formatting issues resolved

[JAZ Numismatics]

The Thessalian League was a koinon, or loose confederation of tribes and poleis in ancient Thessaly. The seat of the Thessalian League was Larissa. Independent for centuries, it fell under Macedonian rule in 344 BC. After the Romans defeated Philip V of Macedonia in 196, Thessaly was established as a free koinon by the Roman general Titus Quinctius Flamininus. The League's independence was short lived, however. 50 years later, the Roman commander Mummius razed the city of Corinth, disbanded the various independent leagues, and reduced Greece to provincial status.

Thessalian League staters are among the last autonomous (and semi-autonomous) Greek issues. They are wonderful coins for the new collector of Greek silver because of their excellent style, large size, and affordability. Today I'm offering an example that's well-struck with pristine surfaces and lovely cabinet tone. Here is the listing at Vcoins. Compare it to the other examples offered at Vcoins here, and you'll see that the $180 price tag is a great deal for this exceptional example of the type. This coin also demonstrates an ancient minting technique. the "tab" that sticks out from 2 to 4 o'clock on the obverse and 8 to 10 o'clock on the reverse is where the flan was held by tongs as it was being struck.

GREEK THESSALY. Thessalian League. AR Stater, 24mm, 4.8g, 12h; Mid to late 1st century BC. Damothoinos and Philoxenides, magistrates. Obv.: Head of Zeus right, wearing oak-wreath. Rev.: ΘΕΣΣΑΛΩΝ, Athena Itonia right; ΔAM OΘOINOY above, [Φ]ΙΛΟΞΕΝΙ[ΔΟΥ] in exergue. Ref.: BCD Thessaly II 870.4 var. 4.76g. Auctioned in association with and on behalf of Dutch Numismatic Auction by Agora Numismatiek, Amsterdam. Ex - Frank S Robinson ex Agora Coin, ex Roma E-Sale 81 Lot 84, 25 Feb 2021. Ex DNA Auction 4 Lot 10, Nov 2019.

Edited March 16, 2023 by JAZ Numismatics

[kirispupis]

11 hours ago, JAZ Numismatics said:

The Thessalian League was a koinon, or loose confederation of tribes and poleis in ancient Thessaly. The seat of the Thessalian League was Larissa. Independent for centuries, it fell under Macedonian rule in 344 BC. After the Romans defeated Philip V of Macedonia in 196, Thessaly was established as a free koinon by the Roman general Titus Quinctius Flamininus. The League's independence was short lived, however. 50 years later, the Roman commander Mummius razed the city of Corinth, disbanded the various independent leagues, and reduced Greece to provincial status.

I never knew they only minted these for 50 years. They certainly seemed to have made the most of them. 🙂 I wonder how many they ended up minting.

[JAZ Numismatics]

38 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

I never knew they only minted these for 50 years. They certainly seemed to have made the most of them. 🙂 I wonder how many they ended up minting.

My understanding is that they were in fact minted until the mid 1st century. Thessaly was no longer independent after 146 BC, but the staters were produced for another 100 years. This was a common occurrence under Roman occupation. The Romans didn't want to disrupt the economies of their occupied cities, so they allowed the continuation of local issues which oftentimes circulated side-by-side with provincial coins.

Edited March 13, 2023 by JAZ Numismatics

[Sulla80]

So here's something that needs verification, but has me intrigued.  Crawford in "Coinage and Money under the Roman Republic" describes the struggles during the Civil War of Caesar and Pompey and mentions Thessaly:

"The case of Thessaly is even more striking; we hear from Caesar (BC iii, 80, 3) abbout a praetor Thessaliae called Androsthenes, who supported Pompey; his staters should be regarded as struck in the same cause.  Tho other Thessalians mentioned by Caesar, his enemy Petraeus (BC iii, 35, 2), also struck staters in this general period, and it may be that much of the last flurry of Thessalian ssilver coinage belongs in the context of this civil war. " Crawford, Coinage and Money Under the Roman republic p 245

The quote from Caesar iii.35.2:

"Of these officers Calvisius was received on his arrival with the utmost goodwill of all the Aetolians, and having expelled the garrisons of the foe from Calydon and Naupactus gained possession of the whole of Aetolia. Cassius arrived with his legion in Thessaly; here, since there were two factions, he met with a divergence of feeling among the towns: Hegesaretos, a man of long-established influence, favoured the cause of Pompeius; Petraeus, a youth of the highest rank, energetically supported Caesar with his own and his people's resources."

It is interesting to note that Philoxenides from the coin of @JAZ Numismatics, along with a Nikokrates minted Thessalian staters with Petraeus (Petraeos) (BCD Thessaly II 852).  Also worth noting the BCD Thessaly 870.3 and 870.4 (both coins from Damothoinos and Philoxenides) are dated to https://issuu.com/cngcoins/docs/bcd_triton_xv_virtual_catalog/352

This leads me to think: this coin issued as issued in the context of Caesar's civil war -  whether in support of Pompey or Caesar - not enough to make a call beyond : one of the magistrates who minted with Philoxenides was an enemy of Caesar.

Anyone find this a reasonable line of thinking or perhaps see a flaw in this linkage?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Sulla80

[JAZ Numismatics]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:48 PM, Sulla80 said:

So here's something that needs verification, but has me intrigued.  Crawford in "Coinage and Money under the Roman Republic" describes the struggles during the Civil War of Caesar and Pompey and mentions Thessaly:

"The case of Thessaly is even more striking; we hear from Caesar (BC iii, 80, 3) abbout a praetor Thessaliae called Androsthenes, who supported Pompey; his staters should be regarded as struck in the same cause.  Tho other Thessalians mentioned by Caesar, his enemy Petraeus (BC iii, 35, 2), also struck staters in this general period, and it may be that much of the last flurry of Thessalian ssilver coinage belongs in the context of this civil war. " Crawford, Coinage and Money Under the Roman republic p 245

The quote from Caesar iii.35.2:

"Of these officers Calvisius was received on his arrival with the utmost goodwill of all the Aetolians, and having expelled the garrisons of the foe from Calydon and Naupactus gained possession of the whole of Aetolia. Cassius arrived with his legion in Thessaly; here, since there were two factions, he met with a divergence of feeling among the towns: Hegesaretos, a man of long-established influence, favoured the cause of Pompeius; Petraeus, a youth of the highest rank, energetically supported Caesar with his own and his people's resources."

It is interesting to note that Philoxenides from the coin of @JAZ Numismatics, along with a Nikokrates minted Thessalian staters with Petraeus (Petraeos) (BCD Thessaly II 852).  Also worth noting the BCD Thessaly 870.3 and 870.4 (both coins from Damothoinos and Philoxenides) are dated to https://issuu.com/cngcoins/docs/bcd_triton_xv_virtual_catalog/352

This leads me to think: this coin issued as issued in the context of Caesar's civil war -  whether in support of Pompey or Caesar - not enough to make a call beyond : one of the magistrates who minted with Philoxenides was an enemy of Caesar.

Anyone find this a reasonable line of thinking or perhaps see a flaw in this linkage?

Hey man, good sleuthing! That certainly adds a dimension to the coins I hadn't thought about. I've corrected the dating of my coin according to the CNG catalog. It would indeed be interesting to find out whose side Damothoinos and Philoxenides were on!

Edited March 16, 2023 by JAZ Numismatics

[Alegandron]

MINE from JAZ !!!

THESSALY, Thessalian League

AR Stater, 21mm, 5.7g, 12h; c. 50 BC.
Obv.: Laureate head of Zeus right.
Rev.: ΘEΣΣA-ΛΩN; Athena Itonia walking right, brandishing spear and holding shield; magistrates ΔAMOΘOI/NOΣ above, ΘIΛOΞENOΣ below.
Reference: SNG Copenhagen 299 var. (placement of names).