Prieure de Sion Posted February 12, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 12, 2023 England, Rosette-mascle issue groat dated 1430-1431, struck under King Henry VI in Calais I need your help with a birthday present - and since I have no idea about the era and the coins, I am hoping for your help. This coin was chosen as a communal gift for a friend. How much should this coin cost? What is a fair price? Do you find anything strange or bad about the coin? Thanks! 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted February 12, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted February 12, 2023 Is 'middle age' referring to the coin or the recipient? 😁 I think it's a regular rosette-mascle (S 1859) - should I notice anything strange? They're one of the more common groats, so the price is a lot to do with condition. The strike and condition is good, but Calais groats usually are. The flan is quite ragged. It might be £300+. Spink says £225 for VF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 12, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted February 12, 2023 A quick search in the CNG archive shows how much about 70 of these in different conditions hammered for, see here. For coins in a condition comparable to yours, recent prices at CNG appear to be somewhere arund 250–350 USD before fees. I'm not an expert in British coins and thus not able to tell you whether the coin looks fishy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kali Posted February 12, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 12, 2023 The coin is fine, it isn't fake. The going rate would be about $400, in that condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted February 12, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: Is 'middle age' referring to the coin or the recipient? 😁 The person who is to receive the gift for his birthday celebrates his 50th. So both in the Middle Ages... 😄 25 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: I think it's a regular rosette-mascle (S 1859) - should I notice anything strange? They're one of the more common groats, so the price is a lot to do with condition. The strike and condition is good, but Calais groats usually are. The flan is quite ragged. It might be £300+. Spink says £225 for VF. Ah, that's very good information. So it is rather a common coin. Beautiful, but not rare, it is the condition alone that determines a higher price. Ok, understand. The problem is - the person who has a birthday has made a wish list. He collects English coins from about the 9th century to the 16th century. And we only have the wish list - but nobody knows anything about this collecting area. And as I do something remotely with coins (ancient Romans) the task is now down to me. 23 minutes ago, Ursus said: A quick search in the CNG archive shows how much about 70 of these in different conditions hammered for, see here. For coins in a condition comparable to yours, recent prices at CNG appear to be somewhere arund 250–350 USD before fees. Thank you. I wouldn't even know what to look for here. But thank you, then I have a rough estimate. 15 minutes ago, Kali said: The coin is fine, it isn't fake. The going rate would be about $400, in that condition. Thank you very much for your assessment, which helps me further. By the way, the seller of the coin shown above wants 350 euros. But I am thinking about looking for other coins. I'm more someone who looks for pieces that are perhaps a bit more special. But "more special" also means the question of how well the condition and / or price budget still fit together. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted February 12, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) This area is totally unknown for me but here's my 2 pennies - make sure (if possible) he will like the coin. Although he might get the trick, try to tell him you found this coin and you like it, what's his opinion... Once or twice my family/friends gifted me coins for Christmas. First time, a good friend bought a lot of medals (I don't collect medals at all) and all were fakes. He has zero numismatic experience and I can bet he got scammed and paid a lot of cash for a bag of junk. I still keep them as treasured memories, but .... Second time, a family member bought me a modern coin. Genuine. But not my area of collecting. I appreciated the gesture, but, even if I like surprises, I would have preferred to consult with me first in this scenario. If you end up buying this particular coin, you can't get very wrong as you have a general idea about what your friend collects, and I am sure he will be very pleased, but are you sure he doesn't have an example of that coin? or perhaps it's not directly in his area of collecting (although you know what he collects). I know that an unwritten rule is don't buy coins to collectors, unless you clearly know what he/she collects/needs. P.S. my birthday is in summer. I want to highlight I accept coins as gifts, I can provide a clear list if needed. Edited February 12, 2023 by ambr0zie 1 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted February 13, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 13, 2023 I'm 100% on @ambr0zie's page. Just to reiterate (not even done with the morning coffee), with anything as arcane as coins --to anyone else in the room-- surprises generally run to the unpleasant kind. It can end up looking like a zero-sum game: do you want suspense, or something the recipient actually has any use for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted February 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 22 hours ago, ambr0zie said: If you end up buying this particular coin, you can't get very wrong as you have a general idea about what your friend collects, and I am sure he will be very pleased, but are you sure he doesn't have an example of that coin? or perhaps it's not directly in his area of collecting (although you know what he collects). 14 minutes ago, JeandAcre said: do you want suspense, or something the recipient actually has any use for? But this is the type he would wish for. As written - we have an exact "wish list" from the birthday boy. And THIS guy is also on the list. Among other things, he would wish for this type. The question is - is this coin OK (apparently yes) and is 350 euros OK? Both questions I can't answer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted February 18, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Thanks again for your help - we have now given him a Silver Penny from Alfred the Great. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Kowsky Posted February 18, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 18, 2023 47 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said: Thanks again for your help - we have now given him a Silver Penny from Alfred the Great. P. de Sion, If your friend has any appreciation for English history he should really treasure a coin from Alfred the Great 🤩. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted February 18, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said: Thanks again for your help - we have now given him a Silver Penny from Alfred the Great. Wow. Did the budget go up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted February 18, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Yes... we found more people for the money basket. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted February 18, 2023 · Member Share Posted February 18, 2023 @Prieure de Sion (I really want to know where your handle comes from!), it's a safe guess that, with his collecting range, this is likely to summarily become the keystone of his collection. You folks could Not have done better! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted February 18, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, JeandAcre said: @Prieure de Sion (I really want to know where your handle comes from!), it's a safe guess that, with his collecting range, this is likely to summarily become the keystone of his collection. You folks could Not have done better! He collect all from the early middle age from france, england, germany and crusaders. If I know it correct - ca. 700 AD to 1200 AD. The present comes from a old privat collection - but with a provenience from two serious auction houses incl. authentic certificate. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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