For the language challenged, as am I.

[Edessa]

"Google showed off a set of eyeglasses that translate and transcribe in real time during their 2022 developer’s conference. The augmented reality display works with Google Translate. The Google AR glasses and their translation capabilities could revolutionize how people communicate when they don’t share a common language. The company didn’t announce a price point or how soon the technology goes on sale in the video below. But it’s a promising step in connecting the world."

https://nerdist.com/article/google-ar-glasses-live-translation-real-time-transcription/#:~:text=Google showed off a set,display works with Google Translate.

So don't throw away or delete those old European language catalogs and files that have been cluttering up your collecting world. Using Google Translate for single page pictures on my phone works great, but this promises to make the process much more natural. Perhaps a plug-in that can recognize circular inscriptions and abbreviations in Greek and Latin? Then you can just look at your coins and read the inscription in your native language!

[Pellinore]

Maybe I don't quite understand your message (being a Dutchman), but I'm using Google Translate now photographing the text and instantly translating, for instance for Greek or Russian language books about coins. It's very useful and simple. Often the translations are ludicrous, but you get the idea and it really helps.

[John Conduitt]

I’m still waiting for something that can read even a word of Arabic on a medieval coin…

[Furryfrog02]

Google translate isn't terrible but it will never compare to a properly trained linguist. There are many linguistic nuances that machine translation just can't do.  As someone who spent a large portion of their previous career as a linguist, I know all too well the limitations of machine translation. 
That being said, I love the idea of a google glass type thing that can provide text translation in some sort of HUD. The more opportunities people around the world have to communicate with each other, the more we will see just how similar we all are and that is never a bad thing.

[Edessa]

1 hour ago, Pellinore said:

Maybe I don't quite understand your message (being a Dutchman), but I'm using Google Translate now photographing the text and instantly translating, for instance for Greek or Russian language books about coins. It's very useful and simple. Often the translations are ludicrous, but you get the idea and it really helps.

I do use it all the time, but photographing each page is still much more time consuming than simply turning a page and "seeing" the text in your native language. Or perhaps go for a drive in France and be able to understand all the street signs!

[JeandAcre]

It was a numismatist (now long retired, alas) who turned me on to an easy technique for damage limitation with Google Translate.  Especially if you're trying to compose, you can take the initial Google translation to the other language and retranslate it.  At that stage, as long as you have a two-language dictionary, you can look up the most problemmatic parts of the translation and tweak them, effectively word by word.

Personally, I can only do this with French, which I can grope around with a little, thanks to all of the Latinate cognates.  For me, it doesn't work with anything Germanic, or (yipes) further east.  So yeah, probably not much help.  ...Anyway, I feel your pain!

Edited April 27, 2023 by JeandAcre

[kirispupis]

The technology has been around for some time. One of my friends created this.

From here, it's not overly difficult to add translation.

[John Conduitt]

28 minutes ago, Edessa said:

I do use it all the time, but photographing each page is still much more time consuming than simply turning a page and "seeing" the text in your native language. Or perhaps go for a drive in France and be able to understand all the street signs!

You don't actually have to photograph the text. It works 'live' through the phone camera. But knowing how that appears I can imagine the glasses are hard work.

[JeandAcre]

...Yike.  For this long, I've been holding out on getting any kind of cell phone ...until  it becomes an act of treason not to have one.  This is starting to push me further toward taking the prospect seriously.  At least.

[Simon]

I use google translate all the time now. I was working with a piece of art from the 16th century and it had unusual text on the bottom of the image. We used our phones with live google translate and it translated the Latin text, It was a warning to others not to copy the artwork. That blew me away. 

Now I use it regularly on biographies not written in English and the occasional coin book. 

[Pellinore]

On 4/28/2023 at 2:15 AM, John Conduitt said:

You don't actually have to photograph the text. It works 'live' through the phone camera. But knowing how that appears I can imagine the glasses are hard work.

I know, but reading a text that's longer than a few lines is very uncomfortable if you have to keep peering through your iphone camera. For a catalogue entry, a title page or a few lines it's o.k. 

I tried to translate an Ottoman coin, but it didn't really work. 

[Ten-Speed]

Didn't know you could translate an entire page. I have some Italian journals I'd like to read.

[JeandAcre]

@Ten-Speed, especially if the journals give you the option of cutting and pasting, I won't blink at recommending Google Translate. 

But only, and always as a starting point.  Yes, this is what you get from an algorithm.  Never argue with something that doesn't have a brain; You Will Always Lose.  From there, I always have to proceed to anythinrg better (and more arcane) that Google Search, or any other links that I've already bookmarked, will still let me find. 

...A lot like Wikipedia --except that even they are still forthcoming enough to let you evaluate a given article on the basis of its documentation.

Edited June 6 by JeandAcre

[rasiel]

On 4/27/2023 at 4:26 PM, Furryfrog02 said:

Google translate isn't terrible but it will never compare to a properly trained linguist. There are many linguistic nuances that machine translation just can't do.  As someone who spent a large portion of their previous career as a linguist, I know all too well the limitations of machine translation. 

You'd be surprised. Linguistics, translators and interpreters are right at the leading edge of the many jobs that are expected to be made obsolete before the end of the decade. Already the current crop of large language models can do this really, really well. And, as probably everyone knows by now, the capabilities of AI are still only on the very early stages and growing at a pace that many are calling exponential. The history of computing is full of memorable quotes where people have confidently said "yeah, no way, never" then wind up embarrassed a short time later. 

Rasiel

 

[John Conduitt]

4 hours ago, rasiel said:

You'd be surprised. Linguistics, translators and interpreters are right at the leading edge of the many jobs that are expected to be made obsolete before the end of the decade. Already the current crop of large language models can do this really, really well. And, as probably everyone knows by now, the capabilities of AI are still only on the very early stages and growing at a pace that many are calling exponential. The history of computing is full of memorable quotes where people have confidently said "yeah, no way, never" then wind up embarrassed a short time later. 

Rasiel

 

This is true, but it's also full of fantastical and apocalyptic predictions for the future that never happen - food pills, flying cars, speech recognition that actually works...

Obviously, if you give it a long enough lead time, AI will replace a lot of jobs. Has it replaced any yet? The computer was invented in 1822 and the photocopier was invented in 1938, yet you still had armies of workers on manual typewriters until the 1970s. AI is currently an unruly child and there's a lot of work to do before it can be relied upon.

[mcwyler]

1 hour ago, John Conduitt said:

This is true, but it's also full of fantastical and apocalyptic predictions for the future that never happen - food pills, flying cars, speech recognition that actually works...

Obviously, if you give it a long enough lead time, AI will replace a lot of jobs. Has it replaced any yet? The computer was invented in 1822 and the photocopier was invented in 1938, yet you still had armies of workers on manual typewriters until the 1970s. AI is currently an unruly child and there's a lot of work to do before it can be relied upon.

A long enough lead time? Two years is my prediction. Might be wrong but imo it's not so much a technology issue but a social one. Which will of course need to be addressed. But back to the original comment, it's an opportunity as well as a (massive) problem.

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, mcwyler said:

A long enough lead time? Two years is my prediction. Might be wrong but imo it's not so much a technology issue but a social one. Which will of course need to be addressed. But back to the original comment, it's an opportunity as well as a (massive) problem.

What jobs do you think will be replaced in two years? I think it's likely some will be, but it hasn't even managed to replace Chat Bots yet. Some employers will do anything to cut costs - I don't think there are any social restrictions so they would if they could make it work.

Yes it's a big opportunity, as someone needs to manage the AI and tell it what to do, and to check its work. It can also make people more productive if it can handle the boring work. To start with, it might even create more jobs than it takes (as we had when traditional advertising was going to be replaced by Google, or when computers replaced clerks). I think the biggest threat will be from scammers, who could get very good at tricking people into handing over sensitive data with AI - it doesn't matter if the AI is accurate, as long as it's persuasive.

[mcwyler]

49 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

What jobs do you think will be replaced in two years? I think it's likely some will be, but it hasn't even managed to replace Chat Bots yet. Some employers will do anything to cut costs - I don't think there are any social restrictions so they would if they could make it work.

Yes it's a big opportunity, as someone needs to manage the AI and tell it what to do, and to check its work. It can also make people more productive if it can handle the boring work. To start with, it might even create more jobs than it takes (as we had when traditional advertising was going to be replaced by Google, or when computers replaced clerks). I think the biggest threat will be from scammers, who could get very good at tricking people into handing over sensitive data with AI - it doesn't matter if the AI is accurate, as long as it's persuasive.

You certainly make a good point about scammers. That is frightening.

But I know that some people in the HR and legal industries are absolutely terrified. It will be lower level jobs to start with but there are a lot of them.

I remember working for Britain's gas company in the 1970s. In the southern region there were maybe 2000 clerks in one huge hangar-like building, with large signs attached to the ceiling saying the major town and city names. Didn't take long for all that to go. The computer dept. (where I  worked) was maybe 100 tops.

 

I suppose wre getting off the subject, sorry I feel I should post a coin or something!

Edited June 6 by mcwyler

[Ten-Speed]

@JeandAcre Yes, I'm wary of algorithms. I have a small collection of Italian journals ("Panorama Numismatico")--I'd be happy to get the gist of some of the articles, or even a very broad lay of the land. Then I could look for further clarity and precision. The journal layout is one column straight down the entire page; coins and their descriptions are on the side. As an aside, the journals have a beautiful and careful lay-out. The covers are four-color printing as are some of the articles and advertisements.

The journals are published by Nomisma Spa, an auction house which, if my memory serves me, is in the small landlocked country of San Marino.

Would I make a scan of the entire page and then scan it into Google translate?

Would it be better to make a Word document and then delete everything except the main text?

Many thanks for your help. This may help open a wonderful new area for me. I've had these journals over 10 years and had plans to find someone to translate but that's just too expensive for me. If I could get a basic understanding of what's in the articles I'd probably subscribe again.

The journal covers coins from the ancient Romans up to the present. I've seen ten-page articles that are carefully done with good scholarship and references.

This journal is the best contemporary source I could find for Papal coins, which began to be minted in the Eighth Century until 1929, at which time they came under Vatican City and are referred to as Vatican coins.

It's been very frustrating to have these on my shelf! I appreciate your ideas so far and would be glad if you can offer advice so I could move this project along.

[JeandAcre]

Thanks for your flattering comments, @Ten-Speed, but for advice, I'm afraid I exhausted my entire arsenal.  I've never gotten beyond a pretty elemenary level with this sort of thing.  I'ts looking as if other of these guys on the thread could be a lot more help!

[Deinomenid]

6 hours ago, Ten-Speed said:

I have a small collection of Italian journals

I regularly have  Italian articles translated by google et al. If they are pdfs then it will translate the whole  thing,  usually very well. If a website   it will of course translate the whole thing, and  if another format I just either copy and paste into the translator  or take a photo and take the text that way. There are a few foibles in some of the technical aspects of coin minting - lots of references to cones and anvils, but the only one I haven't been able to correct is an insistence on translating  taenia  (ταινία) - a type of headband - when used as such in Italian docs as "tapeworm".

I understand why it does it, but  it certainly affects the appreciation of a coin to find it described as say nymph with tapework around head etc...

[Ten-Speed]

I'm going to get to work on this. Thanks!