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T. Carisius, Globes and rad 80s guitars (rudders) on ancient coins and 3 burning questions


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I picked up my first coin of the new year today. An RR from the very end of the life of Rome's Republic by a friend of Julius Caesar:

quote-a-great-civilization-is-not-conquered-from-without-until-it-has-destroyed-itself-from-ariel-durant-8-34-12.jpg.b318d2717b9a7ec96b022e7b7240e848.jpg

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T. Carisius

Silver Denarius. Rome, 46 BC. 3,54 g // 20 mm

Obv: Head of Roma r., wearing ornate crested helmet.

Rev: Sceptre, cornucopia on globe, and rudder; all within laurel wreath. Crawford 464/3a; RBW 1615; RSC Carisia 4.VF

"The obverse of this denarius recalls the first coins of the Republic with the helmeted head of Rome. The reverse exalts Rome's dominance on land and sea and perhaps also recalls Caesar's quadruple triumph over his enemies. The scepter represents the land power of the armies, the rudder the sea power of the fleet. The cornucopia placed on the globe symbolizes universal happiness and prosperity. History: The monetary college of 46 BC includes three monetary: Manius Cordus Rufus, Titus Carisius and Caius Considius Pوtus. Titus Carisius exalts Caesar's origins in his monetary iconography and participates in the celebration of Caesar's quadruple triumph that year. Vercingetorix, after having participated in the triumph of the imperator, is strangled at the Mamertine. The career of Titus Carisius is poorly known outside of his monetary triumvirate."

 

 

1- Surely the cornucopia atop the globe is showing how plentiful things are...

but what's up with the messy latitude by longitude/ broken tic tac toe board on the globe?

1618634845_Screenshot_20230102_123025-removebg-preview3.png.c03e744dbe60758b4401d4bfa57c24c9.png

B- We knew factually the Earth was round, though many believed it was even before, back when Eratosthenes was figuring nearly the exact circumference of the Earth in 240BCE. 

Is the globe depicted truly supposed to be the Earth?

earth-space.gif.492dffcec0334b0f65768cc3978364b1.gif

3- Who knew that a people as conservative as the ancient Romans built 1980's electric guitars???

Screenshot_20230102_144655.jpg.ebd0eb608a8db82e810fd96eed88eabd.jpgfa15262d86d3fcdd00afa75d7c26e470--guitar-art-music-guitar.jpg.c8726b5b7a3a6bbfef9d6292cfc824d1.jpg

 

Other coins of Carisius from 46 BCE:

2880240_1653388023.l-removebg-preview.png.5310cd123f9aaf7b9d81f9f6cecd8f0a.png

 

T. Carisius 

(46 BC) AR Denarius Obverse: Winged bust of Victory right with a jewel in the forehead and diadem of pearls. Reverse: T•CARISI Victory in quadriga right, holding reins in left hand and wreath in right hand.

Silver, diameter 18,7 x 19,1 mm, weight 3,97 g. Purchased from GNDM June 2022

 

And the most popular amongst numismatists, for obvious reasons, come on these are the tools used to create our favorite hobby... money!

2450633_1640514442.l-removebg-preview.png.ff68bc7b1f076a8e9539da453de9a801.png

 T. Carisius.

Circa 46 BC. AR Denarius (19mm, 3.34 gm). Head of Juno right / T. CARISIVS above minting implements, all within wreath: wreathed cap of Vulcan, resembling reverse die, above moneyer’s anvil between tongs and hammer. Crawford 464/2; Sear, CRI 70; Carisia 1a. NVF, Purchased from Savoca Jan 2022

Please share if you have any coins of Carisius or from this time, I know I'm missing at least one other Carisius and that @DonnaML had the best example of it that I've ever seen with the Sphinx (hint, hint, we'd love to see it), ideas, thoughts or answers to my questions, more rudders

592134266_giphy(9).gif.78367480ba3a9026671420a45543665c.gif

*The only prescription (proscription) is more rudders 

1654387132_giphy(10).gif.192057cdf43c34fe2d802635bd76290a.gif

that look like the flying V or other 80's guest styles, laughs or anything else you've got to add.

Edited by Ryro
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Nice coin @Ryro but you may have missed some other things.

I do not believe that is a globe, it is obviously a drumkit.

emoji® – The Official Brand | drum kit

The moneyer did not have enough room for the rest of the kit so only showed the bass drum. To compensate for the missing kit he added a microphone stand.

 

Pin by Crystal on Music drawings | Microphone drawing, Old microphone,  Vintage microphone

Cornucopia looks more like a singer to me

image.png.037036b0d8941a3c90ffd2f2e76b0e84.png

image.gif.62e8ab18e1a640f3f98105478bc27e11.gif

 

  T.CARISIUS DENARIUS
DENOMINATION DENARIUS
MATERIAL SILVER
RULER T.CARISIUS
   
  46 BC
   
CATALOG Crawford 464/3a; Carisia 4; Sydenham 984a.
CONDITION G VF
OBVERSE  
REVERSE  
WEIGHT 4.13
DIAMETER

20.00    

Ex - Bertolani Auction E92

 

 

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..well hey hey....i thought that name was familiar ...deja vue    my 'tools of the trade' coin  you may be familiar with ^^ 

 

.t Carisius denarius 46BC, goddes Moneta bust right Ob., coin making tools reverse, 19mm, 3.66gms...ex Ryro collection

IMG_1133.JPG

IMG_1134.JPG

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This is my other Carisius

image.png.954badd7c4b6f7df285f5569ce8d7377.png image.png.4343e09427851b6e93e320ad0966b804.png

 

T. Carisius. Silver Denarius (3.89 g), 46 BC. Rome. MONETA behind, draped bust of Juno Moneta right. Reverse: T CARISIVS, coining tools: tongs, anvil with garlanded die above, and hammer; all within wreath tied at the top. Crawford 464/2; HCRI 70; Sydenham 982a; Carisia 1a. Some light porosity noted. NGC Photo certificate grade Ch XF; Strike: 4/5, Surface: 3/5.  
Ex The William Oldknow Collection.  Purchased from IRA & LARRY GOLDBERG.

Edited by Dafydd
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Great coins, @Ryro! And that's unquestionably, in my expert opinion, an electric guitar.* 

Typo alert: where you say in the quotation "The monetary college of 46 BC includes three monetary," I think maybe you meant three moneyers?

As for the T. Carisius sphinx, your wish is my command:

Roman Republic, T. Carisius, AR Denarius, 46 BCE, Rome mint. Obv. Head of Sibyl (or Sphinx) right, her hair elaborately decorated with jewels and enclosed in a sling, tied with bands / Rev. Human-headed Sphinx seated right with open wings, wearing cap, T•CARISIVS above,; in exergue, III•VIR. Crawford 464/1, RSC I Carisia 11 (ill.), Sear RCV I 446 (ill.), Sear Roman Imperators 69 (ill. p. 46), Sydenham 983a, BMCRR 4061. 19 mm., 3.87 g.*

image.jpeg.5235732d212bd7daaed4842b7428b7f9.jpeg

*The head on the obverse is described simply as a “Sibyl” in Crawford, “Sibyl Herophile” in Sear, and “Aphrodisian Sibyl” (i.e., Sibyl relating to Aphrodite/Venus) in RSC and BMCRR. The Sibyl Herophile was the name of a Sibyl at Erythae in Ionia opposite Chios, also associated with Samos. Crawford notes at p. 476 that the combination of a Sibyl on the obverse and a sphinx on the reverse “recall
those of Gergis in the Troad [citing BMC Troas, pp. xxx and 55], perhaps allud[ing] to Caesar’s Trojan origin,” the moneyer being a supporter of Caesar. See the examples of these coins of Gergis at https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/troas/gergis/i.html and https://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=79 . On each such coin, the Sibyl is characterized as “Sibyl Herophile.” Characterizing her as the “Aphrodisian” Sibyl would relate to the gens Julia’s legendary descent from Venus. The theory that the obverse instead portrays the head of the Sphinx on the reverse is presented in an article by D. Woods, “Carisius, Acisculus, and the Riddle of the Sphinx,” American Journal of Numismatics Vol. 25 (2013).

The “IIIVIR” in the exergue on the reverse refers to the moneyer’s position at the mint. See https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=IIIVIR, defining the term as a “Latin abbreviation: Triumvir. On coins of the Roman Republic IIIVIR is used as a shortened abbreviation for IIIVIR AAAFF, which abbreviates ‘III viri aere argento auro flando feiundo’ or ‘Three men for the casting and striking of bronze, silver and gold,’ a moneyer or mint magistrate.”

*Just as in my expert opinion these recently-discovered artifacts from ca. 500 BCE prove that the ancient Etruscans had motorcycles: 

image.jpeg.5ca1f7971d98ceed478dea17dad4083a.jpeg

image.jpeg.0b0f6b8657af90a93e6411d425b9b8ca.jpeg

image.jpeg.22020ce02b7fa7cbf63978026c446e52.jpeg

image.jpeg.b2ba81d6bf5de4cdcf08b5d21a726d97.jpeg

image.jpeg.c0b16457fb56b464bbcbb307374b2826.jpeg

image.jpeg.0f6775de00fb11e6c1309cc3a5ab8d14.jpeg

image.jpeg.f4427c8b2e84afcb4a1c4b6a2a380434.jpeg

image.jpeg.b311619ef3ab9160d5f459998b460076.jpeg

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32 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Great coins, @Ryro! And that's unquestionably, in my expert opinion, an electric guitar.* 

Typo alert: where you say in the quotation "The monetary college of 46 BC includes three monetary," I think maybe you meant three moneyers?

As for the T. Carisius sphinx, your wish is my command:

Roman Republic, T. Carisius, AR Denarius, 46 BCE, Rome mint. Obv. Head of Sibyl (or Sphinx) right, her hair elaborately decorated with jewels and enclosed in a sling, tied with bands / Rev. Human-headed Sphinx seated right with open wings, wearing cap, T•CARISIVS above,; in exergue, III•VIR. Crawford 464/1, RSC I Carisia 11 (ill.), Sear RCV I 446 (ill.), Sear Roman Imperators 69 (ill. p. 46), Sydenham 983a, BMCRR 4061. 19 mm., 3.87 g.*

image.jpeg.5235732d212bd7daaed4842b7428b7f9.jpeg

*The head on the obverse is described simply as a “Sibyl” in Crawford, “Sibyl Herophile” in Sear, and “Aphrodisian Sibyl” (i.e., Sibyl relating to Aphrodite/Venus) in RSC and BMCRR. The Sibyl Herophile was the name of a Sibyl at Erythae in Ionia opposite Chios, also associated with Samos. Crawford notes at p. 476 that the combination of a Sibyl on the obverse and a sphinx on the reverse “recall
those of Gergis in the Troad [citing BMC Troas, pp. xxx and 55], perhaps allud[ing] to Caesar’s Trojan origin,” the moneyer being a supporter of Caesar. See the examples of these coins of Gergis at https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/troas/gergis/i.html and https://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=79 . On each such coin, the Sibyl is characterized as “Sibyl Herophile.” Characterizing her as the “Aphrodisian” Sibyl would relate to the gens Julia’s legendary descent from Venus. The theory that the obverse instead portrays the head of the Sphinx on the reverse is presented in an article by D. Woods, “Carisius, Acisculus, and the Riddle of the Sphinx,” American Journal of Numismatics Vol. 25 (2013).

The “IIIVIR” in the exergue on the reverse refers to the moneyer’s position at the mint. See https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=IIIVIR, defining the term as a “Latin abbreviation: Triumvir. On coins of the Roman Republic IIIVIR is used as a shortened abbreviation for IIIVIR AAAFF, which abbreviates ‘III viri aere argento auro flando feiundo’ or ‘Three men for the casting and striking of bronze, silver and gold,’ a moneyer or mint magistrate.”

*Just as in my expert opinion these recently-discovered artifacts from ca. 500 BCE prove that the ancient Etruscans had motorcycles: 

image.jpeg.5ca1f7971d98ceed478dea17dad4083a.jpeg

image.jpeg.0b0f6b8657af90a93e6411d425b9b8ca.jpeg

image.jpeg.22020ce02b7fa7cbf63978026c446e52.jpeg

image.jpeg.b2ba81d6bf5de4cdcf08b5d21a726d97.jpeg

image.jpeg.c0b16457fb56b464bbcbb307374b2826.jpeg

image.jpeg.0f6775de00fb11e6c1309cc3a5ab8d14.jpeg

image.jpeg.f4427c8b2e84afcb4a1c4b6a2a380434.jpeg

image.jpeg.b311619ef3ab9160d5f459998b460076.jpeg

...hahaha....><...i just bought a good friend of mine a Dinky 1946-9 diecast policeman motorcycle for Christmas...i ike these too! ^^

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Posted (edited)

Any ideas or guesses on what the cross hatches on the globe might represent? Continents, mountain ranges, directions to the local brothels???

1977781144_Screenshot_20230102_123025-removebg-preview3.png.24a87e4aaf21386b2ce91f9c665af317.png

Edited by Ryro
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A theory about the meaning of the globe in Roman coins is mentioned here 

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=40755.0

Cool coins. 

My only Carisius is the very popular type, one I always wanted. 

image.png.29924b9e4ee0bee65cb61c47668d45d6.png

T. Carisius (ca. 46 BC). AR denarius. Rome. 20 mm 3.33 g. MONETA, head of Juno Moneta right, wearing pendant earring and necklace; dotted border / T•CARISIVS, wreathed cap of Vulcan (or garlanded punch die) over anvil (or anvil die), between tongs (on left) and hammer (on right); all within wreath. Crawford 464/2. Sydenham 982b. Carisia 1b.

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4 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

A theory about the meaning of the globe in Roman coins is mentioned here 

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=40755.0

Cool coins. 

My only Carisius is the very popular type, one I always wanted. 

image.png.29924b9e4ee0bee65cb61c47668d45d6.png

T. Carisius (ca. 46 BC). AR denarius. Rome. 20 mm 3.33 g. MONETA, head of Juno Moneta right, wearing pendant earring and necklace; dotted border / T•CARISIVS, wreathed cap of Vulcan (or garlanded punch die) over anvil (or anvil die), between tongs (on left) and hammer (on right); all within wreath. Crawford 464/2. Sydenham 982b. Carisia 1b.

You are AMAZING! 

In short, ""Symbolism of the Sphere" by Michael R. Molnar in the June 1998 Celator. In short, it's not a globe representing the Earch that's depicted, a common falacy, but a sphere, or orb, symbolizing the Cosmos." As well, the OP coin, "Another common marking on these orbs, on other coins, is a grid system originated by Greek astronomers to locate stars and planets."

It's a grid of the universe!!! Amazing

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Many Roman coins depict globes. Often, however, it's not the Earth that's depicted, but a sphere, or orb, symbolizing the Cosmos. The die-engraver wasn't quite sure how to represent the equinoctial cross (see Celator article, below) and it came out looking like a ball of rubber bands instead.

Office Depot

Michael Molnar explains in an interesting article in The Celator:

The evidence that the orb depicted on so many coins was the cosmos and not the Earth is revealed first of all by stars and astronomical markings. Close inspection of the orbs sometimes shows not a smooth ball, but bands or hatch marks. On small orbs there appears a letter "X," but on larger orbs, it is recognized as crossed bands that represent the intersection of the all-important zodiac[3] and the celestial equator. The system of circles that the Greeks marked on the celestial sphere is described in the Phaenomena of Aratus, Pliny's Natural History, and Manilius' Astronomica. The "X" is called the equinoctial cross which represents the spring and autumnal equinoxes (where the Sun crosses the celestial equator). It signified the belief in cosmic cycles of birth, death, and rebirth. (The Timaeus of Plato referred to this symbol as a celestial Greek letter "chi.").

This example in the British Museum clearly depicts the stars, the ecliptic, and celestial equator on its reverse.

canvas 1.png
Edited by Roman Collector
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18 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Great coins, @Ryro! And that's unquestionably, in my expert opinion, an electric guitar.* 

Typo alert: where you say in the quotation "The monetary college of 46 BC includes three monetary," I think maybe you meant three moneyers?

As for the T. Carisius sphinx, your wish is my command:

Roman Republic, T. Carisius, AR Denarius, 46 BCE, Rome mint. Obv. Head of Sibyl (or Sphinx) right, her hair elaborately decorated with jewels and enclosed in a sling, tied with bands / Rev. Human-headed Sphinx seated right with open wings, wearing cap, T•CARISIVS above,; in exergue, III•VIR. Crawford 464/1, RSC I Carisia 11 (ill.), Sear RCV I 446 (ill.), Sear Roman Imperators 69 (ill. p. 46), Sydenham 983a, BMCRR 4061. 19 mm., 3.87 g.*

image.jpeg.5235732d212bd7daaed4842b7428b7f9.jpeg

*The head on the obverse is described simply as a “Sibyl” in Crawford, “Sibyl Herophile” in Sear, and “Aphrodisian Sibyl” (i.e., Sibyl relating to Aphrodite/Venus) in RSC and BMCRR. The Sibyl Herophile was the name of a Sibyl at Erythae in Ionia opposite Chios, also associated with Samos. Crawford notes at p. 476 that the combination of a Sibyl on the obverse and a sphinx on the reverse “recall
those of Gergis in the Troad [citing BMC Troas, pp. xxx and 55], perhaps allud[ing] to Caesar’s Trojan origin,” the moneyer being a supporter of Caesar. See the examples of these coins of Gergis at https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/troas/gergis/i.html and https://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=79 . On each such coin, the Sibyl is characterized as “Sibyl Herophile.” Characterizing her as the “Aphrodisian” Sibyl would relate to the gens Julia’s legendary descent from Venus. The theory that the obverse instead portrays the head of the Sphinx on the reverse is presented in an article by D. Woods, “Carisius, Acisculus, and the Riddle of the Sphinx,” American Journal of Numismatics Vol. 25 (2013).

The “IIIVIR” in the exergue on the reverse refers to the moneyer’s position at the mint. See https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=IIIVIR, defining the term as a “Latin abbreviation: Triumvir. On coins of the Roman Republic IIIVIR is used as a shortened abbreviation for IIIVIR AAAFF, which abbreviates ‘III viri aere argento auro flando feiundo’ or ‘Three men for the casting and striking of bronze, silver and gold,’ a moneyer or mint magistrate.”

*Just as in my expert opinion these recently-discovered artifacts from ca. 500 BCE prove that the ancient Etruscans had motorcycles: 

image.jpeg.5ca1f7971d98ceed478dea17dad4083a.jpeg

image.jpeg.0b0f6b8657af90a93e6411d425b9b8ca.jpeg

image.jpeg.22020ce02b7fa7cbf63978026c446e52.jpeg

image.jpeg.b2ba81d6bf5de4cdcf08b5d21a726d97.jpeg

image.jpeg.c0b16457fb56b464bbcbb307374b2826.jpeg

image.jpeg.0f6775de00fb11e6c1309cc3a5ab8d14.jpeg

image.jpeg.f4427c8b2e84afcb4a1c4b6a2a380434.jpeg

image.jpeg.b311619ef3ab9160d5f459998b460076.jpeg

..here's the one i got my friend

dinky motorcycle.jpg

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Nice coin @Ryro

Here's my celestial orb under a chair!normal_FII_TOGETHER-removebg-preview.png.2a63ab6a2636fac476a8e046fa565def.png

Faustina II Junior Silver Denarius 3.36g.,17mm, Rome mint, A.D. 154-156,

Obverse. FAVSTINA AVG-PIIAVGFIL Draped bust of Faustina right,

Reverse. CONC-O-RDIA, Concordia seated left, holding flower & resting left arm on cornucopiae set on globe below seat.

(RCV 4704; RIC 502a)

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, akeady said:

I think the Eraviscans probably had the original version of Thunderstruck.

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Rock on!
Aidan.

Those are gnarly!

Though I forget are the Cosmos the Macedonian shields or are the MSCs the Cosmos?

3373831_1665757036.l-removebg-preview.png.05af8f35d72213b1fd748cf2eccc9f4d.png

Screenshot_20221202-192146_Chrome-removebg-preview.png.3fb49c80434bc7b76d3c89fe43a87ccc.png

IMG_5804(1).jpg.aa6c3d51aaf98b33bb985ce30812a0e6.jpg

Pseudo-autonomous issue, 1st century AD. (Bronze, 17 mm, 4.97 g), Beroia. Macedonian shield. Rev. MΑΚΕΔΟΝΩΝ Nike standing to left on globe, holding wreath with the extended right hand and palm branch with the left. SNG Cop. 1331. SNG ANS.-. RPC -. Unusual and rare; a very interesting exampleA very interesting and scarce emission of the Macedonian Koinon

MACEDON. Koinon of Macedon. Ex: Munzzentrum

Edited by Ryro
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