Anyone have experience selling through CNG?

[CPK]

Hello everyone!
 

I was wondering if any of you have ever consigned any coins with CNG, for auction? If so, what was the submission process like, fees, etc.?

I'm thinking about options for selling some coins and was wondering if they'd be a good choice.

Thanks!

[zadie]

I've consigned with CNG multiple times, never had any major issues. The submission process is pretty straight forward. This is how I usually do it:

• Send pictures accompanied with attributions and provenance (if available) via email.
• Wait for a green light from someone on staff.
• Send the coins.

Fees are quite standard, they'll start you at 15% hammer or $40 per lot, whichever is greater. $60 for group lots. You can usually negotiate these terms somewhat, obviously your leverage varies depending on how expensive the coins you're sending are.

I've consigned coins with a few of the bigger houses but CNG has always worked out best for me personally. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by zadie

[David Atherton]

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a related question regarding CNG: Did anyone win a coin in their last auction which closed Weds? If so, have you received an invoice? I won a coin and currently haven't had anything come through, which is unusual for them (normally they've shipped by now!).

[Hesiod]

Just now, David Atherton said:

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a related question regarding CNG: Did anyone win a coin in their last auction which closed Weds? If so, have you received an invoice? I won a coin and currently haven't had anything come through, which is unusual for them (normally they've shipped by now!).

I didn't win a coin, but a lot of the office was out sick with Covid. They're back to normal staffing now, but I'd guess it would take some time for them to catch up.

[Kamnaskires]

I’ve moved a lot of coins through CNG this past year, some through feature auctions but most through e-auctions. It has generally been a positive experience. My primary contact has been Ken McDevitt. He’s very helpful.

[CPK]

18 minutes ago, zadie said:

I've consigned with CNG multiple times, never had any major issues. The submission process is pretty straight forward. This is how I usually do it:

• Send pictures accompanied with attributions and provenance (if available) via email.
• Wait for a green light from someone on staff.
• Send the coins.

Fees are quite standard, they'll start you at 15% hammer or $40 per lot, whichever is greater. $60 for group lots. You can usually negotiate these terms somewhat, obviously your leverage varies depending on how expensive the coins you're sending are.

I've consigned coins with a few of the bigger houses but CNG has always worked out best for me personally. 

So you're saying that whatever the hammer price is, they take 15% of that and then you get the rest?

If my coin hammers for $300, they take 15% of that ($45), and I get $255?

[Etcherdude]

22 minutes ago, David Atherton said:

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a related question regarding CNG: Did anyone win a coin in their last auction which closed Weds? If so, have you received an invoice? I won a coin and currently haven't had anything come through, which is unusual for them (normally they've shipped by now!).

I’m still waiting for an invoice for a lot I won on Wednesday.

[Hesiod]

9 minutes ago, CPK said:

So you're saying that whatever the hammer price is, they take 15% of that and then you get the rest?

If my coin hammers for $300, they take 15% of that ($45), and I get $255?

Correct.

 

[zadie]

15 minutes ago, CPK said:

So you're saying that whatever the hammer price is, they take 15% of that and then you get the rest?

If my coin hammers for $300, they take 15% of that ($45), and I get $255?

Yep!

[CPK]

They charge an 18% - 20% buyer's premium on top of the hammer price. I would have thought that would be enough without having to cut in even further.

Well, it's good to know! Thanks everyone!

[Kamnaskires]

 

46 minutes ago, CPK said:

without having to cut in even further.

The buyer’s premium does not impact the earlier calculation of what you, as the seller, will make on the deal.

[CPK]

1 minute ago, Kamnaskires said:

 

The buyer’s premium does not impact the earlier calculation of what you, as the seller, will make on the deal.

I know, I just thought the high buyer's premium is where CNG made their money. Say the coin hammers for $300. With the buyer's premium, CNG is already taking in $50 - $60 on top of that. I would have thought that that would be sufficient, and they wouldn't have to take an additional $45 from the seller yet.

But whatever, it is what it is.

 

 

[Heliodromus]

1 hour ago, CPK said:

But whatever, it is what it is.

Yeah, but really it does seem a bit of a racket. 15% from the consignor and another 18/20% from the buyer, so they're taking 35% of the proceeds of whatever gets consigned there, and their only cost is basically cataloging it and shipping fulfillment.

Real estate commissions, also figured on a percentage basis, seem equally scammy. I've got nothing against people getting well  paid for providing a service, whether it's selling ancient coins, or real estate, or anything else, but PERCENTAGE fees in my opinion are not justifiable. It doesn't take any more effort to sell a $10,000 coin than a $1000 one.

Perhaps a bit surprising that no fixed price competitor (even with tiered pricing for more expensive items) has yet to emerge.

[quant.geek]

15% is a bit steep for the consignor! I would suggest you talk to either Leu Numismatik or Numismatik Naumann which have more reasonable percentages (I think 5% or 10%). You also get a good return on the FX conversion from EUR to USD...

 

On a related note, does anyone know what the fees are for Steve Album?

Edited June 4, 2022 by quant.geek

[Parthicus]

I sold most of my first Parthian collection (about 400 coins) through CNG back in 2016.  The entire process was very easy, and I was happy with the results.  First I sent them an intro email, with an attached inventory of the coins, to gauge their interest.  They said it would make sense to sell in their auction, as a named collection (you can look up the "Parthicus" collection).  Then I sent them the coins, waited a few months for them to catalogue everything and list it in an auction, and I got a nice settlement check 90 days after the auction closed.  

[kirispupis]

14 hours ago, Etcherdude said:

I’m still waiting for an invoice for a lot I won on Wednesday.

I just received my invoice yesterday. The entire office had Covid, so they've agreed to send the coins I won in their last auction with the one from this one.

[kirispupis]

1 hour ago, Heliodromus said:

Yeah, but really it does seem a bit of a racket. 15% from the consignor and another 18/20% from the buyer, so they're taking 35% of the proceeds of whatever gets consigned there, and their only cost is basically cataloging it and shipping fulfillment.

Real estate commissions, also figured on a percentage basis, seem equally scammy. I've got nothing against people getting well  paid for providing a service, whether it's selling ancient coins, or real estate, or anything else, but PERCENTAGE fees in my opinion are not justifiable. It doesn't take any more effort to sell a $10,000 coin than a $1000 one.

Perhaps a bit surprising that no fixed price competitor (even with tiered pricing for more expensive items) has yet to emerge.

As someone who invests a lot in real estate and who's married to an agent, real estate fees - just like coin auction fees, are negotiable. More expensive properties usually merit lower fees, as do repeat buyers.

On the flip side, there's also the aspect of who has the advantage. When my wife finds a hot off-market deal and then the buyer tries to haggle on commission, guess who doesn't get called on the next deal she receives? Similarly, CNG tends to fetch higher prices than many other auctions (I suspect due to many US buyers nervous from purchasing at European auctions), so they may figure they have the advantage.

[idesofmarch01]

While it isn't my intention to justify or rationalize CNG's commission structure, I will point out another factor in this issue.

Even in their Electronic Auctions (in which the coins may be consigned and aren't necessarily from CNG's inventory), CNG guarantees authenticity.  If the coin is later determined to be a forgery, CNG is on the hook for refunding the hammer price plus buyer's fee, and while they have legal recourse against the consignor, collecting the hammer price from the consignor is anything other than certain.  Thus the apparently high commissions also cover CNG's own (internal) insurance premiums for those coins that might later be returned as forgeries.

[Restitutor]

15 hours ago, Etcherdude said:

I’m still waiting for an invoice for a lot I won on Wednesday.

I received my invoice this morning! 

[Brennos]

5 hours ago, Heliodromus said:

Yeah, but really it does seem a bit of a racket. 15% from the consignor and another 18/20% from the buyer, so they're taking 35% of the proceeds of whatever gets consigned there, and their only cost is basically cataloging it and shipping fulfillment.

 

[David Atherton]

4 hours ago, Restitutor said:

I received my invoice this morning! 

I got mine too. Their previous expediency spoiled us!

[Carausius]

10 hours ago, CPK said:

10 hours ago, Kamnaskires said:

 

The buyer’s premium does not impact the earlier calculation of what you, as the seller, will make on the deal.

Expand  

I know, I just thought the high buyer's premium is where CNG made their money.

It's not just CNG - nearly all coin auction firms earn commissions on both the buyer and seller side of the transaction, and many firms charge higher buyer fees than CNG!