What If!?!? What If Herakles and Dionysus squared off??? Resilient, incredibly strong and hardy VS Life of the party

[Ryro]

In this corner, HERAKLES!!!

Alexander III 'the Great'

KINGS OF MACEDON. (336-323). Ae. Uncertain mint in Western Asia Minor.

Obv: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion’s skin headdress.

Rev: BAΣIΛEΩΣ.

Bow in bowcase and club; torch below. Countermark at top of bowcase

Price 2799.

Condition: Extremely fine.

Weight: 5.7 g.

Diameter: 20 mm.

Macedonian Kingdom. Anonymous issues.

Ca. 323-310 B.C. AE half unit (17 mm, 3.93 g, 1 h). Uncertain mint in Western Asia Minor. Head of Herakles facing 3/4 right, wearing lion's skin headdress, forming central boss of Macedonian shield ornamented with five double crescents / Crested Macedonian helmet with cheek guards; caduceus to left, monogram to right. Price 2803 var (monogram and symbol arrangement); SNG Alpha Bank 849 var (quarter unit, no monogram); cf. Liampi 139-156. VF. Rare Variety.

Former Savoca

And in the opposite corner... sir, sir, could you put down your wine cup?...hrrmhrrrmm, Diooooooooonysos!!!

GENS CASSIA. Denarius. (Ar. 19mm, 3.6 g). 78 BC Rome. Anv: Head of Libero Bacchus on the right crowned with lyres, behind Tyrso. Rev: Liberea's diadem head on left, behind legend: L CASSI Q F. F.

SYRIA, Seleukis and Pieria. Apameia. Dated year Delta 0T left (year 304). = 49-48 BC. Litra. Head of Dionysos right, wearing ivy wreath, “ME” monogram in left field. / Thyrsos; date to inner left. RPC I 4347. 21 mm, 7,96 g good very fine. scarce

What If Herakles and Dionysos got in a fight?!?!?!

This, "What If" isn't a true "What If", as the two have squared off!!

I've never heard the tale, I even searched around for it a bit. However, that it exists on the coin tells us there's a tale here. Man O man would I love to know how their story went!?

Maybe a metaphor or reference to parties being represented by the two gods, some sort of propaganda or, better yet, a real mythological story of Herakles having to fight his great, great, great, great grandson/half brother (thanks to Zeus's unquenchable libido) Dionysos that could have been lost in time is evidenced on this coin... that or I didn't look hard enough and someone can enlighten us on the mythological story on display (anyone able to get in touch with @jochen?).

Anyways, here the two combatants are:

Elagabalus. 218-222 AD. AE (20mm, 7.1 g). Laodicea ad Mare. Obv: IMP C M [AVR ANTO]NINOV Bust radiate, draped, cuirassed right. Rx: LADI - CEON around, in exergue ΔE, Herakles and Dionysus, both nude, grappling with one another like wrestlers; Herakles, on left, has a muscular body and is bearded, and his club is shown behind him in left field; Dionysus, on right, has long hair gathered in a knot and falling down behind his neck, and his thyrsus with knobbed ends is shown diagonally behind his left calf.

I must say it seems like such an easy and obvious victory for Herakles...

until you recall just how bad the man of all men was with alcohol. Oh, and Dionysos being the God of wine. Dionysos being known for his wit. Herakles was known for Brute force. Rarely do any of his endeavors end with him outsmarting anyone, without help that is. But rather him, with all the grit and determination in the world and beyond, "gutting" it out. 

Herakles is our Rocky Marciano. Always finding a way to win against all odds. Rocky also died relatively young in a plain crash. 

(Down on all three judges cards going into the championship rounds, needing a knockout to win the heavyweight championship of the world, Rocky uncorked "Susie Q" on Jersey Joe Walcott. They could've counted to one hundred. Joe's arm is caught on the ropes while he's unconscious. Never lost and knocked you out everyone with the stones to rematch him)

Dionysos would hopefully be so intoxicated that the punches don't bother him, too much:

But let's be honest, how hard can a guy with with fruit and flowers in his hair punch?

All that said, I'm going with Herakles beats the living snot out of Dionysos... until Dionysos uses his craft and guile to get Herakles drunk and then draws an ithyphallic satyr on Herakles passed out for head. 

This fight is declared a DRAW!!!

They say that a draw is like kissing your cousin. Not gonna tell Herakles though. If he asks we'll just say he won the fight and celebrated to hard afterwards😉

So please share all your coins if Herakles and Dionysos, your thoughts and take a second to vote and maybe tell us how you think this plays out!

[kirispupis]

My suspicion is this wouldn't be a fair fight...

Interesting coin showing the two wrestling. I'm also not aware of a tale.

I did find this mosaic of a drinking contest. My suspicion is Herakles didn't win this one.

I do have one coin with the two, though not on the same side.

BITHYNIA, Herakleia Pontika.
Dionysios, 337-305 BCE
AR Drachm 4.4 gm, 12h, 18mm
Obv: Head of young Dionysos, left. Rev: Naked Herakles erecting a trophy.
SNG.vAul.6936
Ex Akropolis Coins

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

But isn't Hercules 'only' a demigod?  One suspects Dionysius could unleash a flood of wine or pull some other tricks.  He's the Rowdy Roddy Piper of gods.

 That reminds me, it's cocktail time.

[Bailathacl]

But who would win a drinking contest?  Or a seduction of nymphs challenge?  Wrestling is overrated by comparison. 

[Steve]

ahaha ... awesome thread idea, Ryro!!

Man, I love getting snapped on wine, so I'm a huge fan of Dionysos and his party-hardy ways!! (good for him, right? ... I mean who doesn't want to be the God of fricken wine and partying???)

... okay sure, I also admit that it'd be super-cool to be Herakles (Hercules, for fuck's sake!) ... chicks dig Herc, right? ... man, it's a toss-up, but again, I am more of a lover, than a scrapper, so please jot me down as a vote for Big-Dion!!

Edited October 13, 2022 by Steve

[Steve]

Oh, and here are two of my ol' favourite Thessaly coin-examples ... 

 

In this corner, fricken hammered, but lookin' pretty => Dionysos

 

Thessaly, Lamia

 

... and in this corner, lookin' macho, and wearing a fricken lion on his head, Herc!!

 

Thessaly, Scotoussa

 

Yah ... man, that's a good fricken coin-tilt!!

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Steve

[Edessa]

Not my coin and the idea stolen from Facebook, but...

Hercules trying to give his cat a pill.

 

Photo: Dr. Busso Peus Nachfolger.