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?How in the world did they...I mean what happened to this coin? My latest coin-nundrum?/ Magic Makedon mushrooms maybe?


Ryro
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Does anybody want to tell me what in the wild world of sports is going on with my newest (slightly used) MSC?

ActivePartialApe-size_restricted.gif.1eb0a4590d6900d606e7d74f83665690.gif(Actual image of me when I came across this anomaly)

I'll start with the good, before things spiral into chaos like me after 5 shots of absinthein a row. I won the biggest mark I've been looking forward to in a couple of weeks!.. for a bit more than I thought it would go for, 44£, someone else must've seen the curiosity as well. But so unique is it I would've chased it into triple digits. 

tenor-13.gif.1fd735e259c595822371225b93d625a5.gif

And now the strange...WTF is going on here? How is the border circle a spiral and why???

3240233_1662447301.l-removebg-preview.png.f40d530c0b9add39d3ad565d3a286980.png

 (19mm, 3.8 g). Macedonian shield, in centre head of Herakles in lionskin. R/ Macedonian helmet; monogram to l., kerykeion to r.

It's Alexander's big brother Philip Arrhidaios three-quarter facing Herakles (the Herakles is sideways. You can see the lion hair on the bosses bottom) like this type. Sometimes listed as anonymous these were minted during Arrhidaios time in charge of Makedon after the mysterious death of Alexander:

IMG_4411.JPG.b457dd5c7026f751504ec4f1c66901f9.JPG

Macedonian Kingdom. Anonymous issues.

Ca. 323-310 B.C. AE half unit (17 mm, 3.93 g, 1 h). Uncertain mint in Western Asia Minor. Head of Herakles facing 3/4 right, wearing lion's skin headdress, forming central boss of Macedonian shield ornamented with five double crescents / Crested Macedonian helmet with cheek guards; caduceus to left, monogram to right. Price 2803 var (monogram and symbol arrangement); SNG Alpha Bank 849 var (quarter unit, no monogram); cf. Liampi 139-156. VF.

Has anyone seen anything quite like this before or know how they managed to turn a circle into a spiral? Seems like the kind of mystery @dougsmit or @Ed Snible would enjoy. 

But how in the holy hades did they make the coins border spiral. At first it looks like a simple double strike. But that's not the case:

640940526_3240233_1662447301_l2.jpg.99e1fc9f2eb1deb08b9edbb1d196f29b.jpg

Is this from a willy, insane, die engraver, maybe?

willem-dafoe-insane.gif.6b7af43676b550ddddd3780a784ccafb.gif

*Side note: I've never seen a coin type that someone so intentionally overstruck so poorly to, apparently, make sure everyone knew that he was striking over it, as Kassander did these MSCs of Philip Arrhidaios. Here are two examples:

2586526_1645140275.l.jpg.0907f2e767b53639a6617dd62ab0c2d6.jpgZft5q9ACwjF8a7ES4JoincP36f8NM2.jpg.87659e3ff80b836f2eac58680e2a134e.jpg

 

GleefulLawfulFeline-size_restricted.gif.3dd313c1a9c0d638322e22402e759b8f.gif

Other designs that might wrinkle your brains:

IMG_3376(1).PNG.7bb3ca3db53498723d917897f106ba3b.PNG

CARIA, Halikarnassos

(reassigned from Kindya)

499-497 BCE

AR hektai, 1.78 gm, 11 mm, Milesian standard

Obv: head of ketos right

Rev: geometric pattern within incuse square

Ref: Konuk

1645638_1611569933.l-removebg-preview.png.b4766000a2048d5e1ce7cc722d8a759c.png

CRETE, KNOSSOS.

AE (2.54 g), approx. 200-67 BC BC: head of the bearded Zeus to the right. Back: Labyrinth between ΚΝΩΣΙ / ΩΝ. Svoronos, Crete 116.2.00, Lindgren. Nice. Ex BAC Numismatics

 

 

Please post anything wild from your collection to wrinkle and crinkle out brains and it any ideas on what is going on here.

 

Edited by Ryro
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Excellent post. Only thing my addled brain can suggest is the die was so deteriorated, that part became partially detached and subsequently struck into your coin.

Whatever the cause it is certainly interesting

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31 minutes ago, Ryro said:

But how in the holy hades did they make the coins border spiral. At first it looks like a simple double strike. But that's not the case:

640940526_3240233_1662447301_l2.jpg.99e1fc9f2eb1deb08b9edbb1d196f29b.jpg

Is this from a willy, insane, die engraver, maybe?

 

Please post anything wild from your collection to wrinkle and crinkle out brains and it any ideas on what is going on here.

Tranquillina Oddity.JPG

not my coin - I lost out bidding on this one - but couldn't fathom the strike error that produced this coin - I do think it is some sort of double strike (and same for your coin) perhaps a die that cracked in half mid-strike?  or just badly struck with die leaning on half of the flan?

 

Edited by Sulla80
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Although I wonder about a drunken die-engraver, I am not sure we can rule out a double strike. Perhaps the first blow was done so obliquely that it managed to leave an impression on only 1/3 the flan or so. Then the dudes at the mint decided to strike it obliquely from the other side, so as to fill in the remaining 2/3 of the image.

I think that's what happened with this weird sestertius of Herennia Etruscilla I got from @Justin Lee. It was double struck on the reverse, turning "PVDICITIA AVG" into "DICITIA AVG," squishing Pudicitia in the midriff, and giving her a low-rider throne!


Etruscilla PVDICITIA AVG S C sestertius later coiffure.jpg

Compare it to this one of the same reverse type but featuring her earlier hairstyle:

Etruscilla PVDICITIA AVG S C sestertius earlier coiffure.jpg
 
 
Edited by Roman Collector
Enlarge the previously bifocal-defying font size.
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16 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

Although I wonder about a drunken die-engraver, I am not sure we can rule out a double strike. Perhaps the first blow was done so obliquely that it managed to leave an impression on only 1/3 the flan or so. Then the dudes at the mint decided to strike it obliquely from the other side, so as to fill in the remaining 2/3 of the image.

I think that's what happened with this weird sestertius of Herennia Etruscilla I got from @Justin Lee. It was double struck on the reverse, turning "PVDICITIA AVG" into "DICITIA AVG," squishing Pudicitia in the midriff, and giving her a low-rider throne!


Etruscilla PVDICITIA AVG S C sestertius later coiffure.jpg

Compare it to this one of the same reverse type but featuring her earlier hairstyle:

Etruscilla PVDICITIA AVG S C sestertius earlier coiffure.jpg
 
 

Brilliant observation and OOBER FUN oddities!

What supports and, in my mind, opposes your and @Sulla80 (so sorry for your loss on that topsy turvy stunner. Must've been intentional by the hammer man, right? And talk about the precision it must've taken for them to strike with X amount of force with pinpoint accuracy at the direct point to make that optical illusion happen!?!)hypothesis is the missing half shield *often listed as simply half circles, we can clearly tell on the more detailed and artistic coins that they are shield over shields. 

1451539733_3240233_1662447301.l-removebg-preview2.png.6a8b8aa3cf78a3ccd85d4220a6f9a6a2.png

As well, in yellow I've pointed to the spot that I think must mean you both are correct. Two pellets overlapping the bottom shield, left. 

But again, the accuracy that it must've taken to get the bottom border to align with the border to the right, without an awkward or obvious bend, led alone connection point.

But then, back to that missing fifth half shield at the bottom that doesn't cut into Herakles? And the most GLARING WTHades, why does Herakles lion skin skull caps show so well but, at least as far as this picture is willing to divulge, his face is simply missing on a coin with seemingly no wear?

 

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This is not my coin (it will be available in a future auction). I don't actively collect LRB coins, but I am tempted to bid on it.

image.png.7c62df3cea87461d0a79fddfd52d1b4b.png

The obverse is well engraved. The reverse - I don't have the slightest idea what happened there. Seeing just the reverse would make me think this is a barbarous coin, but the obverse denies this idea.

Perhaps...

image.png.ca13c015b8523d1aa056254491e775bc.png

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29 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

This is not my coin (it will be available in a future auction). I don't actively collect LRB coins, but I am tempted to bid on it.

image.png.7c62df3cea87461d0a79fddfd52d1b4b.png

The obverse is well engraved. The reverse - I don't have the slightest idea what happened there. Seeing just the reverse would make me think this is a barbarous coin, but the obverse denies this idea.

Perhaps...

image.png.ca13c015b8523d1aa056254491e775bc.png

I've identified the Reverse figure left:

 

Screenshot_20220925_143534.jpg

Scrooge_McDuck.png

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1 hour ago, Ryro said:

As well, in yellow I've pointed to the spot that I think must mean you both are correct. Two pellets overlapping the bottom shield, left. 

Yup... I think this is the smoking gun that shows it's a fluky double strike that just happened to line up in a very puzzling way.  Which is super cool, I love it!! 🤩

Here's a weird Byzantine overstrike that first had me thinking it overturned previous scholarship about the order of the anonymous folles:

image.jpeg.43759a3568d186eca8abf8d9daa848f1.jpeg

If you look at the reverse, it seems the two figures are underneath the crossbar of the cross extending horizontally across the middle of the coin, yes?  But that should be impossible, because the two figures coin – Constantine X and Eudocia, SB 1853, struck in 1059 at the earliest – is later than the cross, which is attributed to Michael IV (1034-41, class C, SB 1825).  So what happened here?  The two figures were indeed struck after the crossbar in the middle.  It was overstruck twice, both times at an oblique angle which failed to obliterate the crossbar. One overstrike produced the top half of the figures, while the other produced the bottom half.  Very strange!  (Meanwhile, the obverses of the two types are very similar, and were struck to coincide so that the double strike there is barely detectable.) (NB: thanks to @Valentinian for helping me figure out this weird coin!)

2 hours ago, Ryro said:

Amazing! That reminds me of @Severus Alexander's AMAZING coin with a countermark eye over Tyche's eye... maybe he'll share it and some of his other oddities? 

Your wish is my command, @Ryro!  Here's that countermark:

image.jpeg.337b8dd61a193559c1dc0cd88eb27622.jpeg

Helios c/m on Tarsus AE, sometime after 164 BCE

And one other oddity, one of my faves... a flipover doublestrike featuring Gallienus with Salus sprouting from his beard:

image.jpeg.dbdf47a0a04aa0d67169ec9a2134ff63.jpeg

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I have a fun Roman overstrike.

Where does your spirit reside? This flipover strike has GENIVS coming out of the back of the head of Claudius II: 

Claudius2GENIVSflipstrike8477.jpg.70e00a014d48cb0a9c600443278169f3.jpg

23 mm. 3.32 grams.
[IMP C CLA]VDIVS AVG
[GENI]VS EXERCI
RIC 48K. Sear III 11340.
I think this coin was struck twice with the same dies, the second time after being flipped over. 
The left half of the reverse is still clear on the obverse (left image) from the first strike. I imagine this coin was originally poorly struck on the original obverse (on the right) and was to be struck again. It was (accidentally? flipped over between strikes.The original reverse was fairly well struck (on the left, above) and not fully obliterated when stuck with the obverse die the second time. (The die was struck at an angle.) The obverse die right side (the face and end of the legend) appeared, so we see the head from the second strike,  and the entire reverse image was impressed. This reverse shows traces of overstriking, but I don't see where the original undertype (head of Claudius) was.

I think this is called a "flipover double strike."  It is cute that we got half of each, obverse and reverse, on one side.

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I see nothing in the OP coin that can not be explained away as a doublestrike.  I have many favorites but the one today is a flipover Septimius denarius which came very close to being the same on both sides.  One side favors the obverse and the other the reverse but the alignment is rather matching. 

rj4220bb2026.jpg.023969b251557d6792f993bf14a2be59.jpg 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's a Carthaginian overstrike coin type initially posted and pondered a few years ago by @dougsmit and when I saw it, it was quickly added to my want list. I was lucky enough to be able to snag one not too terribly long afterwards.

CollageMaker_20190302_122713662

Zeugitania, Carthage, AE Unit

Struck ~350 BC just before the 3rd Carthaginian invasion of Sicily 345-340 BC
Overstruck on coin from 400-350 BC
West Sicilian mint
O
bverse: Youthful male head (Trittolemo?) to left between two grain ears.

Reverse: Horse galloping right.
References: SNG COP 120, MAA 19 (overstruck on MAA 18)
Size: 18 mm, 3.46g
 

Notes: Interesting overstrike; the head of Tanit is visible on the reverse, and the horse standing before palm tree on the obverse.

(Top two images are of coin, MAA 19, compared to a coin it was overstruck on at bottom, MAA 18.)

The male image lacks signs of a deity and may be one of the leaders of the Punic forces.

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