Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Just wondered if it is common practice for vcoin sellers to buy from other vcoin sellers and then put the same coin up for sale at 300% more than the original seller? On the same platform! Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 I've been watching this seller for 6 months now and it seems to be a common practice now ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) I've certainly heard of dealers buying each other's stock. Not so much simply moving from one VCoins store to another 🤣 Presumably, the new dealer is someone who sells to the 'premium' market, like Shanna Schmidt, whose customers don't care so much about the price as the prestige. Edited September 9, 2022 by John Conduitt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted September 9, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 9, 2022 I'm sure there's a bit of this going on everywhere. Not long ago I found a coin from a VCoins seller I respect and have ordered from. I was tempted, but did a bit of investigation first and found it had been recently purchased from a Leu auction I'd participated in, then marked up. I didn't buy the coin, but neither have I ceased buying from this seller (well, actually I did - but not out of malice. He hasn't posted anything I want) I'm under the impression that most VCoins sellers buy coins they find underpriced from all sources - coin shows, auctions, and other sellers. If they feel they can make a profit, they'll do it. I know for a fact some of my coins were obtained that way. Since I don't have the funds to buy huge lots, nor can I travel across the country for shows, that's just a markup I pay. Before I buy any coin, I research the current prices. If I feel the price is too high, I don't buy. There are several sellers who really seem to jack things up though and list coins at ridiculous prices. Obviously they find buyers or they wouldn't do it. I blame the buyers for being stupid there, not the sellers for profiting from it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) This guy/girl is doing it all the time and I'm only looking at the seller I buy a lot from....I won't mention the names at the moment but do you want to see one example?.... I could pile on a list of about 30 in the last 6 months if needed but this particular coin really passed me off as it was posted and bought within 5 mins....! It was a coin I really wanted and the price was good at 230....It's now at 695!!! Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Spaniard said: I could pile on a list of about 30 in the last 6 months if needed but this particular coin really passed me off as it was posted and bought within 5 mins....! It was a coin I really wanted and the price was good at 230....It's now at 695!!! Wow, that is some going. Presumably, they have alerts set up and a lot of spare cash. I guess they also somehow avoid paying VAT and maybe even some fees, as otherwise, it's hard going selling coins for a worthwhile profit when you're buying them individually at retail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Yes @John Conduitt..Something going on here..As I said I buy from the seller a lot and also have an alarm set up too..I go directly to the shop to see what has been uploaded for sale and 3 or 4 have sold!....These are then put up for sale in the new shop on the same platform, newly photographed, at highly inflated prices! Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted September 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, Spaniard said: This guy/girl is doing it all the time and I'm only looking at the seller I buy a lot from....I won't mention the names at the moment but do you want to see one example?.... I could pile on a list of about 30 in the last 6 months if needed but this particular coin really passed me off as it was posted and bought within 5 mins....! It was a coin I really wanted and the price was good at 230....It's now at 695!!! Could you please share the coin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, El Cazador said: Could you please share the coin? Yep.. Here's the original listing at 230 euro... Here's the new listing at 659 dollars Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Please don't think I'm just crying over this coin, I'm not!....But I had been following the sales and looking at the other shop and a large number of his/her shops inventory reflected the previous sellers coins but at much higher prices! I'm not really into big auction houses although I have bought from some as with buyers fees and postage it works out roughly the same price....Unless you have the ability to buy lots... Seeing this I'm really in two minds to stop and sell off my ancient collection and go back to my other passion of British colonial!.... Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2022 That must be annoying. Maybe you could message the seller and strike a deal? I've done that before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, CPK said: That must be annoying. Maybe you could message the seller and strike a deal? I've done that before. Thanks....I've thought about this.. I do have a good relationship with him, maybe he knows or not?...But this whole scenario shows me that his margins are small for sure in comparison to other sellers...Any seller who's there to make their profit will eventually realise they can up their prices a little...This just reflects on the increase of ancient prices we've seen over the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velarfricative Posted September 9, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Spaniard said: This guy/girl is doing it all the time and I'm only looking at the seller I buy a lot from....I won't mention the names at the moment but do you want to see one example?.... I could pile on a list of about 30 in the last 6 months if needed but this particular coin really passed me off as it was posted and bought within 5 mins....! It was a coin I really wanted and the price was good at 230....It's now at 695!!! Just a part of the industry, unfortunately. I saw one drachm go from a vcoins store to 3 different auction houses in quick succession, starting out on sale for $500 and ending at the last auction house at $2400 with BP. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) @velarfricative....Yes I agree, quite sad really!..... At the end of the day will vcoins just become a sellers platform?..Pun intended.. But remember I'm speaking about the same platform, one vcoins seller to another not buying and then selling on another auction house which I quite understand.. Edited September 9, 2022 by Spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted September 9, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Spaniard said: Please don't think I'm just crying over this coin, I'm not!....But I had been following the sales and looking at the other shop and a large number of his/her shops inventory reflected the previous sellers coins but at much higher prices! I'm not really into big auction houses although I have bought from some as with buyers fees and postage it works out roughly the same price....Unless you have the ability to buy lots... Seeing this I'm really in two minds to stop and sell off my ancient collection and go back to my other passion of British colonial!.... Certainly I get why you're bummed at missing this Quietus, especially by only minutes. It's quite a nice example. Also, I do understand that your broader point concerns the new seller's practices overall, not only in regards to this one case. But if I may play Devil's Advocate about that one case just a smidgeon (Imp's Advocate?), I have to say that it was underpriced originally and the marked-up price seems in keeping with the market. If you hadn't noticed the earlier listing, would the new price strike you as being out of line? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 9, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Phil Davis said: Certainly I get why you're bummed at missing this Quietus, especially by only minutes. It's quite a nice example. Also, I do understand that your broader point concerns the new seller's practices overall, not only in regards to this one case. But if I may play Devil's Advocate about that one case just a smidgeon (Imp's Advocate?), I have to say that it was underpriced originally and the marked-up price seems in keeping with the market. If you hadn't noticed the earlier listing, would the new price strike you as being out of line? It seems odd, then, that a dealer would keep listing coins that get snapped up by other dealers in seconds, to be sold on the very same platform they're using. It would only have to happen once or twice for me to think - hang on, I can't be pricing high enough. It only makes sense if the other dealer is trying to stock up and is selling over the odds. Edited September 10, 2022 by John Conduitt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted September 10, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: It seems odd, then, that a dealer would keep posting coins that get snapped up by other dealers in seconds, to be sold on the very same platform I'm using. It would only have to happen once or twice for me to think - hang on, I can't be pricing high enough. If I'm understanding Spaniard's central point correctly, it dealt more with the new seller's practice of buying from other Vcoins dealers and immediately offering the same items at a hefty markup than it did the original seller habitually underpricing his wares. Rereading the whole thread though, I'm not quite sure. Your interpretation may well be the right one, in which case the first seller would indeed be advised to repeat Econ 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 Two hundred and thirty would have been a good deal, but 695, um how 'bout no? That's decrepit/problem Solidus territory. But for 230 Euros I would have jumped on that. It's a nice one; decent VF, pleasant enough surfaces. I've never gotten around to acquiring Quietus (I'm just not that much into billon Ants) but I acquired a not too horrendous (no bd, just a bit worn) Macrianus Alexandrian Tet placeholder from Praefectus for c. $70. Dealer flips aren't always exorbitant. I remember acquiring my Heraclius 'Jerusalem' Solidus at a 2009 coin show from Jon Kern. He had flipped it from Pegasi. The price was 400-something; the obverse suffered from a finder's gash, happily only really affecting the first letter or two of the legend. In my record collecting hobby there's one heir of a 1970's collector who puts stuff up at about twice or three times what they're worth, and they usually just sit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Spaniard said: Thanks....I've thought about this.. I do have a good relationship with him, maybe he knows or not?...But this whole scenario shows me that his margins are small for sure in comparison to other sellers...Any seller who's there to make their profit will eventually realise they can up their prices a little...This just reflects on the increase of ancient prices we've seen over the last couple of years. Absolutely annoying to see this happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn235 Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 I've gotten so sick of people shouting at ancient newbies "Don't buy on ebay! Buy only from Vcoins / MA Shops!" Honestly, I'd rather get burned spending $25 on a fake worth $0 than spent $500 on a $100 coin because I don't know the market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Finn235 said: I've gotten so sick of people shouting at ancient newbies "Don't buy on ebay! Buy only from Vcoins / MA Shops!" Honestly, I'd rather get burned spending $25 on a fake worth $0 than spent $500 on a $100 coin because I don't know the market. 💯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Julius Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Finn235 said: I've gotten so sick of people shouting at ancient newbies "Don't buy on ebay! Buy only from Vcoins / MA Shops!" Honestly, I'd rather get burned spending $25 on a fake worth $0 than spent $500 on a $100 coin because I don't know the market. Haha… nooooooo! That’s us cagey veteran bottom feeders protecting our honey hole! Nothing to see there, all fakes, move along. 😂 Edited September 10, 2022 by Orange Julius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougsmit Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 I'm not sure I see anything wrong with a dealer buying a coin from another dealer and trying to resell it higher. In many cases, the second dealer may know that he has a customer who would like the coin and keeping rich customers supplied with expensive coins is the name of that particular game. I have purchased coins from VCoins and other places for prices I considered half what I would pay. Sure, they have coins for sale that I would not pay 1/10 the asking price as well. That seems to be the name of the game. Remember any time you win a coin at auction, you only got it because you thought it was worth more than the competition. Dealers who fail to sell at the high price can always mark it down later or sell it to a third dealer who thinks he might have a buyer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celator Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Spaniard said: Yep.. Here's the original listing at 230 euro... Here's the new listing at 659 dollars That looks like the same photo with a filter and different background. Could it be the same seller with two stores? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted September 10, 2022 · Member Share Posted September 10, 2022 Like any business, people need to make a living. You will find some astonishing mark-ups on vcoins. Dealers have costs - going to auctions, hotels, trade shows, photography, time, and research. AND they need to price in the risk that a coin they're selling may later be proven to be tooled or fake! You're not just buying the coin. You're buying all the hard work that the dealer has been doing to put that coin in their shop! You may sometimes feel like you're over-paying, but you get a certain peace of mind that isn't available from an auction house. I've thought about being a dealer. It would be my dream job. But I can't see a clear pathway to make it profitable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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