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Excellent pedigrees that I discovered: The Vierordt & Prince Von Waldeck Collections


Romancollector
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Hi everyone, 

As the title suggests, I would like to share some of the pedigrees that I found for coins in my collection. I have only 75 coins, so I didn't expect to be very successful in finding old pedigrees. I would like to highlight three coins beginning with my sestertius of Volusian. I bought this coin because I inspected it at the Triton lot viewing and thought it had a decent portrait of Volusian. The references provided were as follows: 

Ex Jack A. Frazer Collection.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

Ex Philip DeVicci Collection.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

Ex Classical Numismatic Group E-Auction 460 (29 January 2020), lot 739.                                                                                                                                                                                         

Ex Classical Numismatic Group Auction 54 (14 June 2000), lot 1774.

Volusian (AD 251-253)

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AE Sestertius (28.5mm, 19.60 g). Rome mint, 6th officina. 2nd emission. Late AD 251-252. IMP CAES C V VOLVSIANO AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right / PAX AVGG, Pax standing left, holding olive branch and sceptre; S C flanking. RIC IV 256a.

A few months ago, I was scrolling through various NFA catalogues on the Newman Numismatic Portal and found the following pedigree. 

Ex Numismatic Fine Arts Summer Mail Bid Sale (27 June 1986), lot 1023.

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I noticed a reference to the Vierordt collection in the listing. As I wasn't familiar with this collection, I googled it and discovered that it was auctioned by Jacques Schulman beginning in 1923. I looked through the Vierordt catalogues on RNumis and found my coin in the second Vierordt sale. 

Ex Jacques Schulman (5 March 1923), lot 2297. 

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I have since found two other auction listings while I scrolled through catalogues on RNumis.

Ex Numismatic Fine Arts Fixed Price List 28 (1984), no. 143.                                                                                                                                                                                                     

Ex Glendining (23 September 1979), lot 128.

Coin #2 to follow.....

In the meantime, please post your coins from the Vierordt Collection OR any coins whose pedigree you discovered.

Edited by Romancollector
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Congratulations! You're fortunate that the coin has such a distinctive shape. It makes finding pedigrees a whole lot easier, and the process of scrolling through catalogs a whole lot faster.

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Well done! Those discoveries can be some of the most rewarding things about collecting coins for me. It's very satisfying to find a connection to previous generations of collectors, especially multiple links in the chain, and when there's a lot known about those collectors and they've made some kind of lasting contribution to the field. Naturally, it's even more rewarding to find a lost provenance yourself, "in the wild," than to buy one with the provenance already known. (That's fun too, of course!)

I don't have any Vierordt or Phil DeVicci coins (that I know of), though I've bid on several. (DeVicci had an excellent collection -- his collection of Brockages is unbelievable, with many great rarities.) His Alexandrian CollectionCNG 53 (15 March 2000); DeVicci BrockagesCNG 54, lots 1-79 (14 June 2004).

For Jack Frazer's Bio: Triton XXIII Catalog page 10

I have at least one coin ex Jack A Frazer, a Justinian I AV Tremissis that I bought at CNG in 2019. The provenance was given to Harlan J Berk sale #27 in 1983. I'd certainly love to find more provenance on this one, and I've kept my eyes open, but before 1983 it's not the kind of coin that would've made it in any catalog besides a small dealer's Fixed Price List:

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Justinian AV Tremissis (17mm, 1.45 g, 6h). Constantinople, c. 527-565.
Obv: D N IVSTINIANVS PP AV. Diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right.
Rev: VICTORIA AVGVSTORVM. Victory advancing right, head left, holding wreath and globus cruciger; star to right; CONOB.
Ref: DOC 19; Sear Byz 145. 

Prov: Ex Jack A. Frazer Collection (CNG EA 455 [30 Oct 2019], 394), acquired from Harlan J. Berk Buy-Bid Sale #27 (13 Sep 1983), Lot 8.

 

 

Edited by Curtis JJ
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From the Seldon collection ( Variously mis-spelled by me due to ignorance). Bought by them "as a possession and investment"  I still have no idea where they bought it from, that didn't seem too important to them.   One obverse 2 reverses one of only 3 known!  Very, very late post Sullan NewStyle

Artemis  Demeter shiney Horizonatal Both.jpg

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4 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Congratulations! You're fortunate that the coin has such a distinctive shape. It makes finding pedigrees a whole lot easier, and the process of scrolling through catalogs a whole lot faster.

I had the same "chance" recently, thanks to the odd shape of a Kyzikos EL Stater.

The coin was former Grand-duc Alexander Michaïlovitch Romanov collection, a cousin of the last Russian Tsar, whose coins were dispersed at the Naville & Cie auction IV in 1922. Moreover, thanks to the endless stream of staters from the mysterious "Siren collection" on the market for the last three years, I was able to acquire this coin at a rather attractive price.

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Kyzikos3.JPG.4bcf314e4031f9042252356e7d6e17be.JPG

Edited by Brennos
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45 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

From the Seldon collection ( Variously mis-spelled by me due to ignorance). Bought by them "as a possession and investment"  I still have no idea where they bought it from, that didn't seem too important to them. 

Will you please stop with this Salton - Selton nonsense already? For people who don’t know the context, maybe it’s not as obvious what’s going on here. I think you deserve patience and compassion and a certain degree of leeway. But this comes up all the time. And, as I finally said last time, it is offensive. Why do you keep singling out those two people for personal attack?

What’s not obvious to me is whether you truly don’t know much about them, or if you’re only pretending to not know, and in fact having some personal reason to despise them. Your preoccupation with them certainly begs the question. 

Almost everything you say about them is not only demonstrably false, but almost the opposite of the truth. Of all the things you’ve said about them, I only remembering reading two that seemed true: that they’re Jewish and had an expensive coin collection.

And even if your complaints were accurate -- they're not -- they would just as well apply to many, many collectors. It really begs the question, why have you been singling out that particular couple for insult for the past several months (on Forum, then starting here)?

Quote

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=127572.msg768178#msg768178

I wonder why Lotte & Mark bought it? They seem to have not done any research on it and kept it close since, presumably purchasing it from commerce (who)....Just like the gold eid mar,keeping it private in the collection of what?>  Random coins it seems the only other NewStyle was a Prow issue...no direct relation other being Athens New Style and as common as muck! Not too particular "fine style neither. What did they see when apparently RANDOMLY BUYING. These were clever people from a well off Jewish refugee family highly educated etc.

Whatever the actual reason, it's clear by now that you're not going to say it any more explicitly, and that's a good thing. 

Either way, I find it offensive that you keep insulting and attacking the reputation of, or sometimes just making snide remarks and insinuations about, a couple who are no longer alive to defend themselves. And have said so before.

I have no interest in discussing this kind of thing. I'm not asking you to stick to some high standard of conduct. I just want you to stop naming and insulting specific people (or making it clear that you're attacking specific individuals without naming them, as you've done before as well).

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OK.  But no, I have been also singling out the Aristo's who mysteriously just happen to had a gold Eid Mar in their collection  for decades! I have also called out the Museo Chieti archaeologica Italy for sitting on their portion of the Poggio Picenze hoard for SEVENTY years  and not allowing publication!!!!  A bit like Arthur Evans and Carl Blagen sitting on Linear B tablets hindering the decipherment!.  It somehow seems to be private property  when it should be public, how else does things progress? Heraklion museum...NO PHOTOGRAPHS  NOT PUBLISHED!!  only c 100 years since excavated!  The real explicit reason is because they don't care  about scholarship and because they can, not anything else! ( Unless it's illegal in someway!). And I have sided with coin smugglers on ebay  cos that is where I got my NewStyles from!  At least I published them!  Read the Gaziantep Hoard  by Meadows and Houghton  on how a smuggled hoard reconstructed yielded so much information  and slotted in with the Demetrios l hoard by Lorber!  Whatever happened to the repatriated Dekadrachm hoard?  Sitting ( i believe), un published in Antalya Turkey!

Oh yes, who else got thrown out of a Turkish museum for wanting to photograph the OTHER side of the small hoard of NewStyles  sitting unpublished in a museum! ( now a martyr's badge of pride).

This and only this is my bug bear

 

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Posted (edited)

Moving on to coin #2.

This is one of my holy grail coins and without question my current favourite. When I picked the coin up from the Spring Kunker auction, it came with a 1983 Vinchon pedigree which is decent enough.

Claudius (AD 41-54) & Agrippina Jr (Augusta, AD 49-54)

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AR Denarius (19mm, 3.57 g). Rome mint. AD 51. TI CLAVD CAESAR AVG GERM P M TRIB POT P P, laureate head right / AGRIPPINAE AVGVSTAE, draped bust of Agrippina Jr right, wreathed in grain. RIC I 81.

Ex Classical Numismatic Group Auction 112 (September 11, 2019), lot 594.

Ex Cederlind BBS 172 (18 December, 2013), lot 226.

Ex Vinchon (9 December 1983), lot 276.

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About an hour after I found my Volusian, I found this coin in a subsequent Schulman catalogue from 1930. Needless to say, I was very pleased. 

Ex Vierordt Collection

Ex Jacques Schulman Auction 173 (5 June 1930), lot 332.

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Until I get around to coin #3, please feel free to post what you feel is relevant.

 

 

Edited by Romancollector
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I too enjoy the hunt , it keeps me off the street. Back in January 2017 I was attending my very first NYINC. I was completely overwhelmed by all the activity including the auctions. I was attending the Goldberg Auction and saw this coin

Syracuse Ar Tetradrachm 450-440 BC Obv Driver in chariot being pulled by four horses walking right. Above Nike crowning the horses.  Rv Head of Arethusa right surrounded by four dolphins. Boehringer 515 17.10 grms 25 mm Photo by W. Hansen purchased The New York Sale XL Lot 1029 January 11 2017,syracuset30.jpg.08d11c175a39c8c7146a2bbf53d1e333.jpg

At the time of purchase all I knew of the coin was that it was in a Goldberg auction from the year before. Naturally the coin got a nickname "the panhandle"  and that is all I knew of it until earlier this year. However going through the R Numis I found a listing of old Numismatic Fine Arts Auctions Going through the NFA Auction XXXII  which was held June 10 1993 I found Lot 13

1262988129_Catalogue_XXXII__bpt6k3042642q.JPEG.f746b38aec3e5b753c427fa98f8b907a.JPEG

Naturally I was thrilled I had found my coin in an NFA Auction Wow Moreover I just took a coin that had a 2016 pedigree and moved it back over 20 years.  Again that auction did not list anything older. I was very proud of myself . That is until.....

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About a month later I was looking through an Ars Classica Auction 17 which was held On October 3 1934. I was actually looking for another coin but if I am already here I might as well be thorough. I looked at Lot 199 and realized this is my coin again. Again nothing more recorded though it may have come from the collection of R. Burrage of Boston Mass. 

Edited by kapphnwn
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I'll share this one "in the wild" find since I just received its catalog in the mail yesterday (Adolph Hess 207, 1 Dec 1931, Slg. H Otto) [*Biblio below].

The catalog also has an interesting provenance of its own: ex-Hermann Lanz (1910-1998) Library (with his stamp and inv. no. 1756 on the cover).

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I will admit I took special pride in finding this provenance since BCD had missed it, even with his library of Greek numismatic literature and sale catalogs of legendary scale. (I'll take my small victories where I find them! I also have a number of ex-BCD Library Duplicates catalogs and books.) CNG missed it too, as did Kuenker when they resold it later.

The earlier provenance that I found: 

Adolph Hess Nachf. Katalog 207 (Lucerne, 1 December 1931), Lot 493 [illustrated on Plate 12];
"Sammlung Kommerzienrat H. Otto, Stuttgart" = Heinrich Otto, Jr. (1856-1931), a German textile magnate.

BCD Peloponnesos II (CNG Auction 81, Lot 2327) had the provenance to Stack's, 15 Mar 1979. BCD/CNG also neglected to mention the consignor, James Madison University Foundation, and that it came from the John A Sawhill (1892-1976) Collection.

Stack's gave no prior provenance (or illustration). On archive: Stack’s 15 Mar 1979 (JMU-Sawhill Coll.)

Here's the coin in my copy of BCD Pelo. II:

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My photo:

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The Hess 207 catalog is available from Uni Heidelberg (and elsewhere), but I still like physical copies, especially if they come from notable numismatic libraries or collectors. Here's the Lanz copy of Hess 207, which I just photographed:

image.jpeg.6dfb4e6595f0b87703c430842c870003.jpeg

(By the way, if anyone has seen a "named" copy of Hess 207, please let me know! Some of my ex-Lanz catalogs were hand-named, but not this one.)


* BIBLIOGRAPHIC, Hess Auction 207 = Clain-Stefanelli 1755; Spring 331;
For Otto bio: see also 
Poinsignon Library, III (Künker 357, 7-9 Dec 2021) 3944 & 3964 (Hess 230: Swabian etc.); online at Heidelberg, also ACSearch Lib. & Archive.org.

 

5 hours ago, Romancollector said:

Claudius (AD 41-54) & Agrippina Jr (Augusta, AD 49-54)

2 hours ago, kapphnwn said:

Ars Classica Auction 17 which was held On October 3 1934

Those are both excellent finds! That Claudius is one of the few types of Roman Imperial AR Denarius that made it into auction catalogs pre-WWII. One of the interesting things you learn from reading large numbers of old auction catalogs is how much attitudes about what counts as a desirable coin have changed, as well as the supply.

Until well into the post-WWII period AR Denarii were highly underrepresented in auction catalogs. RIC was dominated by AV Aureii and, interestingly, large bronzes. There might be a couple dozen Sestertii illustrated, while maybe just a few of the 50-100 mint state denarii that could've fit in the same space would be illustrated.

There were exceptions of course, some of them big ones. I think American catalogs may have illustrated more denarii than European. But most of the "Pozzi style" (i.e., fully illustrated) collections were Greek.

Edited by Curtis JJ
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And finally, coin #3.....

I picked this coin up at this year's NYINC as a part of CNG's fixed-priced list. It popped up in a few recent auctions, but it didn't have the greatest photographs because it was slabbed and I passed on it on more than one occasion. When I held it in hand at NYINC, I was very impressed with it and decided to purchase it even though the markup was steep and it lacked a pedigree. Having lost my primary target in Triton, a coin from the Prince Waldeck collection, I thought why not!!!!

Marcus Aurelius (AD 161-180)

1831129740_MarcusAureliussestertius-caesar.jpg.865c6bd9049249c0595b8fad058e6ade.jpg

AD 161-180. AE Sestertius (31mm, 23.19 g). Rome mint. AD 145. AVRELIVS CAESAR AVG PII F COS II, bare-headed bust right, drapery on left shoulder / HILARITAS, Hilaritas standing facing, head left, long palm in right hand, cornucopia in left; S-C across fields. RIC III (Antoninus Pius) 1242a.

Ex T. R. Fehrenbach Collection.

Ex Classical Numismatic Review.

Ex Classical Numismatic Group Feature Auction 118 (14 September 2021), lot 1079.

Ex Heritage Auctions NYINC World & Ancient Coins Platinum & Signature Auction #3089 (22 January 2021), lot 33202.

A few weeks after finding pedigrees for my Volusian and Claudius/Agrippina coins, I decided to have a look at the Munzhandlung Basel, Prince Waldeck collection catalogues on RNumis. Sure enough, there was my coin; I acquired a Waldeck coin at NYINC after all. Essentially, this coin went from having no pedigree to having the oldest pedigree in my collection. Perhaps the Prince Waldeck collection is not as old of a pedigree as the Gonzaga or Apostolo Zeno collections, but it is a superb pedigree nonetheless. I would like to know where this coin has been in the intervening 87 years...so the search continues! 

 

Ex Munzhandlung Basel Auction 3 (4-5 March 1935), lot 513.

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I would like to conclude my post by thanking @rNumis for providing this invaluable resource to collectors such as myself who otherwise lack the necessary resources for this research.

Feel free to continue posting pedigrees you discovered! 

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Appears you were fated to have one!

I know this particular feeling well: 

21 minutes ago, Romancollector said:

I would like to know where this coin has been in the intervening 87 years

Ever since I found out my Corinth Stater was in the Pozzi Collection (Ars Classica I, 1921), I've been trying to figure out where it was until 1991, when I bought it at Glass Shoppe Coins in Tucson, AZ (w/ no provenance whatsoever):

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Edited by Curtis JJ
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11 minutes ago, Curtis JJ said:

Ever since I found out my Corinth Stater was in the Pozzi Collection (Ars Classica I, 1921), I've been trying to figure out where it was until 1991, when I bought it at Glass Shoppe Coins in Tucson, AZ (w/ no provenance whatsoever):

 

I can picture the Glass Shoppe on Broadway (near Swan? Craycroft?) but I never went inside, in the years before I was driving.

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Now for something completely different. Back in 2002 I was looking on my computer and saw this coin  Ae Aurelianus of Numerian Lugdunum 283-284 AD Obv. Bust left radiate and cuirassed holding spear over shoulder and carrying shield. Rv Pax standing left holding branch and scepter. RIC 395 2.79 grms 22 mm Photo By W. Hansen Purchased CNG E Auction 53 Lot 120 November 20 2002.numerian4.jpg.09965e42895b7559e4e46abd2501204e.jpg

I know I recently featured this coin.  Alright This is the image from CNG 

53120.jpg.3c43a2ceac3e3eaa47e80e289d2e6bd7.jpg

 

However a few days ago @Romancollector indicated that he had seen the coin elsewhere. I certainly cannot say that this is older. The document suggests that it was done sometime after 2002 . I cannot even say that this is prestigious, however......

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It appears that the obverse of my coin is the avatar image for the reference page on Numerian found on Wikipedia. Good eye @Romancollector   Like I said Now for something completely different. 

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2 hours ago, Etcherdude said:

I can picture the Glass Shoppe on Broadway (near Swan? Craycroft?) but I never went inside, in the years before I was driving.

That's it! I'm sure it's been over 20 years since I went inside, but I think it's still there (I only visit Tucson a few weeks a year now but my family moved there when I was ~12 years old).

Incidentally: Another Tucson ancient coin collector was James Pickering -- Jamesicus on Cointalk (unfortunately, I only learned of his location when he died a few months ago). (His memorial/obit thread: CT 395314, 11 April 2022. Coins from his collection have been sold at CNG & Ancient & Medieval Coins Canada.)

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