robinjojo

Thanks! I guess that "beth" Aramaic character is also a guess, but the form seems consistent with examples I have seen through Google. I am by no means an expert or even very knowledgeable in the areas of Aramaic or any other ancient language. I am pretty certain that this coin circulated in what is now Syria. Hoards of these owls came out of this country and other parts of the region, including Iraq. Oddly, though, the anchor counterstamp is not apparently included in the table of countermarks from the 1989 Syrian hoard. Perhaps this coin came out of Syria in 2022, when a fairly good sized group of mostly imitative owls appeared on the market in Israel, auction venues and retail sellers. Not too many are appearing now, but that of course can change, sometimes dramatically when a huge hoard quickly makes an appearance.

For glare and "white out" areas I'd avoid using a flash. indirect light is best, as pointed out by Severus Alexander. Also, I tend to have better results using a white background. Taking a photo of a gold coin on a black background is problematic for me in regards to hue. Here are three of my efforts. This photo was made with a white background; the black was added latter in Photoshop. However, the hue still makes this coin "brassy" and not more yellow, as it actually is. Much better! This photo even picks up some of the orange toning. Since I tend to depend on natural light, the results can vary depending on the amount of sunlight coming through the skylight. I don't remember if the day was sunny when I took this photo, back in 2020, but it probably was. Again, the coin could be a bit yellower. I think part of the issue is that I take the photos looking down on them. This can create lighting variations as the shadow of the camera cuts across the coin. I should set up a more professional arrangement, with the coin mounted in a way that avoids this problem. As I recall I did try to change the hue of this coin through Photoshop, with good but not totally accurate results. Again, the black background was added after the photo shoot.

Thanks! I might post this coin on Coin Talk to see what Gino might have to say about the cm.

Cool coin! I don't have much in terms of ancient furniture, unless I include what I have in the house, but here is one example with interesting objects, six prize urns. Valerian I Æ 30mm of Anazarbus, Cilicia. Dated CY 272 = AD 253/4. AVT K Π ΛIK OVAΛЄPIANOC CЄ, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust to right / ANAZAPBOV MHTPOΠ, six prize urns, the middle one in upper row containing palm branch; Γ-Γ across upper fields, ET BOC (date) across central field, A M K T in exergue. RPC X Online Unassigned ID 60270 (this coin cited); Ziegler 834; BMC 43; SNG Levante 1520; SNG BnF -. 17.85g, 30mm, 1h. Very Fine. This coin published at Roman Provincial Coinage Online (rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk); Ex Roma Numismatics Ltd., E-Sale 93, 6 January 2022, lot 832; Ex Roma Numismatics Ltd., E-Sale 76, 5 November 2020, lot 825.

Here's a coin that I think warrants its own thread, due to a very distinctive countermark, along with two other countermarks as well. This imitative owl is a very recent arrival from VCoins. Since I am awash in owls of various stripes, I would have passed on this coin were it not for its well centered and bold obverse countermarks. Egypt, imitating Athens, pharaonic owl, circa late 5th-mid 4th century BC, 16.69 grams I think the central cm is an anchor. It really is quite distinctive in form. It might have been struck over another cm. To the upper right of it is what appears to be an Aramaic beth, slightly rotated. An anchor of a very similar style appears on some of the well known coinage of Thrace, Apollonia Pontika, mid 4th century BC . Photo courtesy of CNG The Seleucid kings also had a longtime tradition of using the anchor countermark on coin whose origins were outside the empire, as a means of sanctioning their circulation. Pamphylia, Side, AR tetradrachm, circa 205-100 BC. Seleucid anchor countermark on obverse. 16.20 grams The OP coin has another cm, to the upper right of the central cm. I believe this smaller yet quite bold cm is an Aramaic "beth", rotated about 90 degrees due to space limitations . Finally, there is a much smaller and rather blurry cm on the reverse, to the right. This could be an Aramaic "sadhe" when rotated 180 degrees, but this is just a guess on my part. While the cm style on the OP coin more closely resembles the anchor used by Apollonia Pontika, I think it far more likely that the anchor cm was applied by someone, in an official or unofficial capacity, in the Seleucid Empire, following the death of Alexander III. The presence of one clear Aramaic character on the obverse, prominently next to the anchor, supports this guess. I know of no pharaonic owls found in what was Thrace, but doesn't mean that there were none; these coins, Athenian and imitative, had a wide area of circulation in that broad ancient region of the Levant and further east. But Thrace? I don't think so. Additionally, I imagine that any countermark characters used in Thrace would be Greek, not Aramaic. So, there it is. Any thoughts? Thanks!

It looks like another deluge of standardized owls, 238 this time, with one additional intermediate Pi Style (worn obverse die it seems). The spigot is wide open. Lots of Tigranes II tetradrachms as well. If you're looking for a type coin, this might be a good opportunity to acquire a previously pricey coin.

Thank you so much for the clarification! I uploaded a better image of the coin, and traces of the "I" can be seen now. I was wondering why the reverse eagle design was not matching up with all the RY 2 tetradrachms of Diocletian.

Thanks! Here's another Diocletian Alexandrian tetradrachm with a different portrait style, one that I have seen very frequently. The obverse legend is much clearer. Diocletian, potin tetradrachm, 284-305 AD, RY 1, Alexandria. Tyche reverse. 5.38 grams

This is a typically crude and crusty coin, which I think was produced during the reign of Diocletian, RY 2. I'm having problems with the obverse legend, which in parts look like blobs of metal. It appears to begin with AK. The succeeding letters are hard for me to discern. The ending letters appear to be OCCEB. LB (year two), with an eagle, with a wreath in its beak, facing right and a palm left are on the reverse. The weight is 7.02 grams. The portrait style seems somewhat different from what I encounter for Diocletian, but these portrait styles seen to run into each other during this period of the The Tetrarchy. I really appreciate any input/opinions regarding this humble and no doubt common coin. Thanks

I used to have an arrangement with a coin dealer to purchase coins that total at or above the sales tax exemption in California, I think at the time it was $1,000. The coins purchased were below the $1,000 cutoff, so when the coins arrived he would include a bullion gold coin to make up the difference. This is one of them, valued at $65 at the time. Australia, George V, sovereign, 1919 Perth Mint.

Perhaps this might help: https://guichet.public.lu/en/citoyens/immigration/nouveau-resident-luxembourg/arrivee-luxembourg/declarer-biens-personnels-douanes-demenagement-pays-tiers-vers-Luxembourg.html I'm staying in Cupertino. I think the city has a deal with Apple's "spaceship" headquarters that residents can come along for the ride if it ever departs for points unknown....😉

Oh well, the grading conundrum, which has been an aspect of numismatics for many decades, amplified over the past few decades by the MS system on the world/US side and, even more recently by the NGC grade, strike/surface rating system. are all part of a scheme to think up more grade categories or states as a means to make more money. Virtue, expanding knowledge or promoting the true meaning of numismatics, that of collecting coins as a way of learning history and human societies, are not the objectives of slabbing coins or the pushing the near obsession of grading by numbers that is so rampant for many collectors of modern and ancient coins. But, to each his or her own, as noted. I started collecting Morgan dollars back in the late 70s to early 80s, got turned off by the grading and hype, not to say the monotony of the designs and endless VAM varieties. I switched to world coins in the early 80s. Back then the grading was very straightforward: fair, good, very good, fine, very fine, extremely fine, almost uncirculated and uncirculated. The European grading system was more conservative, so an EF there would most likely grade as an AU in the US. This system suited me admirably. How nice it was to purchase a German wildman thaler in VF, with a nice strike and toning for what seemed to me a reasonable price. Many of the modern coins that I collected were cobs, and they really defy any numeric systems of grading or really an kind of grading with any accuracy, being wonderfully crude as they are! But, alas! Slabbing spread from US to world coins and now we have what seem to me hair-splitting grades for really modern coins. I've mostly moved on to ancients, avoiding slabbed coins unless they merit my attention beyond being encased in plastic. However, slabbing has been a major growth industry within ancient coin collecting, especially for the massive amounts of classical owls that have flooded the market for the past several years, but other coins as well. But I have never had an obsession to own "the finest known" or "top of population" or MS 71.55689. I guess that makes me very old school, but a coin, with all of its history, virtues and flaws, in hand is definitely my preference.

The important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that technological innovation, especially innovation that has a major societal impact, such as the Industrial Revolution, is that it comes with positive outcomes and a dark underbelly: vastly increased availability of goods (food, clothing, household utensils, etc.) leading to a burgeoning middle class, and at the same time an explosion of industrial workers whose economic lot was dire, until the appearance of trade unions. Technology has advanced through the 20th and into the 21st centuries with an increasing pace of benefits and costs. The airplane has led to a transportation revolution that has shrunken the planet, while at the same time giving us the carpet bombing of World War II and the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Now, in the middle of the Information Age, technology in the form of AI, social media and search engine platforms are giving us information at our finger tips, retrieving data that would have required hours of research at a library. But, it has also created silos that provide reinforcing feedback of personal beliefs and prejudices, supported by fake videos, images and voice messaging. With this technology, literally, reality is being altered to a point where there is widespread disagreement over what it actually is. In the not-so-distant future, it will be, for example, to easily create a convincing image by almost anyone of a "discovered" ancient Roman or Greek coin, submitted with a convincing narrative behind it, perhaps with a convincing video featuring a well-known authority, with the use of an AI app. Maybe I'm overblowing the perceived threats, but they are certainly worth considering. I do hope that regulations in the US are instituted to set up rail guards for this technology, though I am sure that they would be ignored by bad actors.

For all of its innovation and ease of use, I just get a feeling that technology, headed most recently by the leapfrog advances of AI, is coming at a cost. That cost is our ability as human beings to communicate among ourselves, to have direct contact and to think rationally and independently. Now I think AI has definite promise in the areas of health care, climate modeling and scientific research, to name three. Already this technology is helping researchers process data on a volume beyond human capabilities in very short timeframes. I suppose it is fun to have an AI app construct a Roman coin with an unlisted reverse, much in the same way as having an app create an essay based on rudimentary input. But I am cautious and cling to old ways, no doubt partially due to my stubborn personality; shoot! I don't even own a smart phone. But it has been my experience that the pace of technological innovation outstrips the ability of society to cope with the changes the often come in crashing waves, swamping us with unforeseen consequences. For now I'm sticking to my books, online searching through Google and, oh yes, my cordless phone. I hope that I am not offending anyone, but that's just the way I feel and think....

It seems to me that the indigenous groups are seeking a financial share in any sales of the San Jose salvage, whenever that occurs. The details are murky.

I tend to agree. At best an agreement with the indigenous groups might be reached whereby they receive a percentage of the revenue from any sale that the Colombian government raises from the sale of any of the coins that they own from the San Jose. It is a solution, probably half-baked, but better than nothing. Here's more information on life in Potosi during the silver boom, which lasted centuries, albeit drastically diminishing by the by the end of the 18th century. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/21/story-of-cities-6-potosi-bolivia-peru-inca-first-city-capitalism#:~:text=to western Europe.-,At its peak in the early 17th century%2C 160%2C000 native,or Seville at the time.

From today's Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/29/bolivia-shipwreck-colombia-treasure

Though probably not. Ferdinand VII was a Bourbon, descended from Philip V, nephew of Louis XIV of France. I had to rummage through the boxes, but was able to locate the imaginary bust 8 escudos Ferdinand Vii, Santiago. This coin is in an old ANACS slab from the early 1990s (came that way). Chile, Ferdinand VII, 8 escudos, Santiago, 1811 FJ. Imaginary bust. KM 72

The included soil might actually be quite high quality for growing stuff!

I haven't rolled out this coin for a while: Spain, Segovia, Philip IV, 50 reales, 1635 R.

I've seen owls from the Middle East with green deposits. I'm sure this occurs elsewhere as well. The deposits reflect the environment in which the coins have been stored for centuries, even thousands of years. The green encrustations on silver coins must be the result of other neighboring minerals or objects oxidizing, creating over a long period the buildup of deposits on the coin, with the help of moisture. I've actually seen a few instances where this has led to a seller describing a silver coin as a fourrée, even though the coin is actually silver with green (copper) oxide deposits on parts or all of the coin. Removal of the green deposits and analysis of the coin (surface condition, any signs of plating breaks, weight, etc) usually resolves the question for or against the fourrée attribution. Here are three Sassanian drachms and a follis of Maurice Tiberius (separate purchase) that I picked up out of group at the February show in San Jose. The two drachms to the left had some black deposits, probably horn silver that were relatively easy to remove. The follis, very nice as-is, is part of the group photo and was not cleaned.

Lovely coin!

Nice coin! My experience with these large, impressive coins is that price is determined on rarity, condition, strike and size. Collectors pay a premium, it seems, for the truly massive bronze coins of Ptolemy IV, some measuring 46mm and weighing up to 90 grams or more. Those examples are much scarcer based on my experience. Here's one of my so-so examples. It displays very much the same surfaces as the OP coin: a little porous and with a somewhat uneven strike. Egypt, Ptolemy IV Philopator, AE Drachm, Alexandria mint. 222-205 BC. 66.15 grams

A beautiful coin and nice photos!

I agree. The problem with these coins is that they tend to come from conflict zones, so any possible chance of location, hoard size, composition, etc. is virtually impossible. This was very problematic even in the best of times in the Middle East. There is evidence from studied hoards, such as the Syria hoard o f1989 and the Iraq hoard of 1973 that points to multiple sources for these imitations, including official, such as the pharaonic owls issued by an apparently unnamed pharaoh to pay Greek mercenaries fighting the Persians. There are others, more localized and probably a mix of official and private origins. The weights of the imitation owls span a wide range, but I think in a region where coins of Attic, Phoenician and shekel weight circulated in a great mix, this would be a logical outcome. I imagine that there would be a great incentive for a local authority to require the turning in of Attic weight owls, melt them and issue imitations at the shekel weight and pocket the profits. This actually happened almost 1,900 years later in Potosi, Bolivia under Philip IV of Spain, but in that case the method of fraud by the assayers and mint officials was debasement.