Marsyas Mike

Looks okay to me too.  I think the low-grade silver/alloy can sometimes experience a leaching process that leaves them a bit pock-marked and light weight.  

Happy New Year to you all.  My latest Commodus is from the last year of his reign.  I had a difficult time attributing it, for reasons I try to describe below (if anybody has corrections or clarifications, I'd be much obliged):

Commodus   Denarius (192 A.D.)  Rome Mint L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, laureate head right / P M TR P XVII IMP VIII COS VII P P, Fides Militum standing left holding standard and cornucopiae, star in right field RIC III 234; BMCRE 318-321; Cohen RSC 583a. (2.56 grams / 17 x 16 mm) eBay Dec. 2023   

Note:  Three types in OCRE:

RIC III 232:  No star, standing right

RIC III 233:  No star, standing left

RIC III 234:  Star, standing left

For some reason, many auctions with stars cite RIC 233.  Also, Wildwinds cites RIC 233 only,  "star in left or right field, or no star.  RIC 233, RSC 583-583a, BMC 316-317"

British Museum citations are confusing:  RIC 234 is not cited at all, though four of  them match (with star)

BMCRE numbers/stars:  

316:  No star (RIC 232); this seems to be an error; Fides is standing left like all the others; OCRE says she should be standing right on RIC 232. 

317:  Star left (RIC 233)

318-321:  Star right (RIC 233)

"The presence of the star on some coins issued late in Commodus' reign is referred to in BMC merely as a good omen, however Herodian records that a comet appeared at that time." Agora Auctions

Nice finds, @expat.  Those little Cappadocian types with the grain ears are charming coins, I think.  Here are my two, both cheapies (under ten bucks):

Very interesting @Roman Collector - I had no idea there were so many varieties.  The globe/ostrich egg on the seat is compelling.  

I have the most common type, kind of scruffy, not the best artwork (headless peacock wearing a pantsuit variety): 

Nice one, @expat - I like the big head on Juno - makes her look smart.  

I got one of these earlier this year:

Roman Republic Denarius - L. Procilius  (80 B.C.)   Rome Mint S·C, laureate head of Jupiter right / L· PROCILI | F, Juno Sospita advancing right, brandishing shield and hurling spear, serpent before. Procilia 1; Crawford 379/1. (3.82 grams / 19 x 17 mm) eBay May 2023

Die-Match Characterstics: Obv: Hair at nape curls into C. Rev: Large R; crooked F.

Die-Match Obv. & Rev.: Bertolami Fine Arts Auction 19; Lot 365; 11.11.2015

Die-Match Obverse: Bibliothèque nationale de France Identifier REP-17577 (CRRO example)

32 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Thank you, @Marsyas Mike. I think an obverse die match is possible, because it all looks very similar to me. Perhaps the shape of the nose looks a bit different? Also, the angle between the top end of the hair ribbon and the loop directly beneath it appears slightly smaller on your example than on mine, but I'm really not sure.

Thanks @DonnaML - as with all die-matches, I'm never 100% either.  The nose on mine may match your example's but mine is somewhat clotted with green...snot?  Patina, I mean!  Yuck.  Sorry.  

When I got this one, I did crawl around the web looking for die-matches and here is what I found - wishful thinking, perhaps:

Die-Match Obv. & Rev.:

Bertolami Fine Arts E-Auction 50; Lot 593; 10.12.2017

Die-Match Obverse: 

Roma Numismatics Limited E-Live Auction 6; Lot 235; 25.03.2023

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

21. Philip II, Augustus (son of Philip I) AE Sestertius, AD 247-248 (Rome Mint). Obv. Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust of Philip II right, seen from front, IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG / Rev. Philip I and Philip II seated left on curule chairs, side by side, extending right hands, with Philip I, nearest viewer, holding short scepter downwards in left hand, LIBERALITAS AVGG III; in exergue, S C [Senatus Consulto]. 30 mm., 17.53 g. RIC IV-3 267(a), Sear RCV III 9279 (ill. p. 188), Cohen 18. Purchased 22 Oct. 2023 from Carthago Numismatics (Kefi Mansouri), L'Isle Adam, Ile de France, France; ex Tunisian hoard.

@DonnaML that is a spectacular grouping, with top-notch attribution and issue notes.  Thanks for sharing.  

My contribution - an obverse die-match to your Philip II Liberalitas sestertius?  The wonky lettering here and there, the way the laurels point at the H...maybe?

Poking around a bit more on this, I found the British Museum has one of these at 4.84 grams - pretty light for an as/dupondius.  I don't think it is a die-match to mine, but it is similar-looking, I think:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-3672

Thank you @John Conduitt @dougsmit @maridvnvm @Ancient Coin Hunter for weighing in on this topic - it is good to see those other AE examples.  

It certainly isn't an area I actively collect - I just go for cheap unusual stuff and hope I learn something along the way.  

41 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

I would have thought so many die matches would make it more likely they were modern fakes?

Yeah, I wondered that too - sometimes finding a lot of die-matches is not necessarily a good thing, especially for a coin that (whatever it is) is going to be "unofficial" even if it is ancient.  As with so many things, I'll never know.  

11 hours ago, DonnaML said:

@Marsyas Mike, I know I said earlier in this thread that I don't have any historical/commemorative medals relating to the Crimean War, but I had forgotten about this inexpensive white metal medal commemorating the end of the war:

Great Britain, Victoria, 1856, Peace in Europe, Treaty of Paris [End of Crimean War], WM 52 mm., by Messrs. J. Pinches. Obv. Wreath entwined with a ribbon inscribed with the names of the allied countries (England at 12;00, Sardinia at 3:00, Turkey at 6:00, and France at 9:00); within wreath, inscription THE/ALLIES/GIVE PEACE/ TO EUROPE. MARCH 30TH/ 1856 / Rev. Fall of Sebastopol: Scales within wreath and rays above a trophy of flags; view of the town of Sebastopol within rectangle below; around, FALL OF SEBASTOPOL SEP 8TH 1855; in exergue, a snake cut in two among rushes; below, SINOPE -- HANGO.* BHM Vol. II 2581 (ill. pp. 199-200) (Rev. same as Obv. of BHM Vol. II 2573); Eimer 1509 (ill. Pl. 166).

*See BHM Vol. II p. 198, giving an account of the siege of the town and fortress of Sebastopol, which fell after 349 days, and explaining: “The names SINOPE and HANGO . . . allude to an engagement on 30 Nov. 1853 off Sinope, in Turkey, when a small Turkish fleet was attacked by a superior Russian force. The Turkish forces were totally destroyed except for one vessel which escaped to Constantinople. As a result of this action, the Anglo-French fleet entered the Black Sea on 4 January 1854. At Hango Bay on 5 June 1855, the Russians fired on some British naval personnel who, under a flag of truce, were landing some Russian prisoners. Several men were killed and others wounded, some were taken prisoner. The Russians asserted irregularity on the part of the British, but this was not substantiated. 
 

That's a lovely medal @DonnaML - the die-work is much better than the Ottoman example above.  Thanks for sharing that.  

The mint didn't do a very good job with this one, but it's the thought that counts - Christ the King:

3 hours ago, LONGINUS said:

This is a great post, @Marsyas Mike !

My apologies for only now seeing it after 13 months. Militaria has always been a major fascination for me.

I'm considering posting my collection of historic French military medals in the next few days.

Thanks for the inspiration!

 

I just got skunked on eBay for a Sardinian Crimean medal - it was going for five bucks!  Unfortunately, I'm not the only one to spot it...otherwise I would've opened up this thread again.  These were issued by Turkey for France, England and Sardinia.  The boat sank with most of the English medals, so a lot of English soldiers got the Sardinian medal.  Here it is, mis-described - not an "etched" coin, but rather a struck medal:

1854 Turkey Silver 20 Karush. w/Crimean War Alliance Etching. Rare!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204571194851

Thank you for the kind words! 

Nice pair of animals, @Tejas  As for mine, I need an upgrade...

1 hour ago, JayAg47 said:

Given there are die-matches, and the light brassy feel, it looks to be a limes issue.

My Elagabalus is also a limes denarius, and after some light cleaning the brass revealed itself. (I know some like the patina, but I was curious to see if the coin was a billon or just brass).

Moreover, there are so many double-die matches to my coin, sold from various auction houses and on Vcoins. I see a lot of limes issue from the Severan era than from any other period, any reasons why?!

 

Thanks for sharing those, @JayAg47.  I have a few Severan limes - all "silver" though.  Here's my favorite - a posthumous Sept. Severus:

12 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

I'm hoping that @dougsmit comes in and offers his opinion. 

 

Me too!

So another spectacular rarity (har) from eBay came my way.  Seller took decent photos, but no indication of size.  An As issued for Julia Domna with Diana in a biga on the reverse - an interesting, desirable type.  Bidding was ferocious and I got it for $4.74 (plus shipping). 

Seller shipped quickly (from Canada) and I ripped open the envelope like Ralphie on Christmas morning, only to find the thing was, in the words of Monty Python, "wafer thin" - at 22 mm it was somewhat small for the type, but the weight - 3.13 grams is way too light to be a plausible as, even during the Severan era.  Not even close.  Here it is: 

It doesn't look too bad - and the hints of metal under the patina look very much like brass - so a grossly underweight dupondius to boot?  Fake, I said to myself, sadly.  

Normally I wouldn't pester the Forum with junk like this, but here's the weird thing - looking (without much hope) on acsearch, I found three - yes, three - die-matches for this coin, all freakishly light weight.  I'm a scrounger, I admit it, but these auction houses are supposed to be experts. 

Naumann:  "very light specimen" https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=10412707

Roma:  no comment, but Israel export noted:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5576800 and (same coin) https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6973747

Paul-Francis Jacquier:  "Sehr schön Zu ähnlichen Gußprägungen (Limesfalsa) aus der Severer-Zeit vgl. Jacquier 31, 2003, 316 (As des Caracalla) sowie Jacquier 23, 1999, 506 (As des Geta). Es scheinen nur Limesfalsa gallischer Herkunft bekannt zu sein" (translation:  "Very nice For similar cast coins (limesfalsa) from the Severan period, see Jacquier 31, 2003, 316 (As of Caracalla) as well Jacquier 23, 1999, 506 (As des Geta). Only Limesfalsa of Gallic origin seem to be known."

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2120661 and https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1670048

Here's comparison photos - die-matches, but they don't look like mass-produced modern cast fakes, based on flan centering, ancient crud, etc.  The die-work is quite good, in my opinion - I especially like the horses.  And if you were faking these nowadays for the collector market, why not boost the weight and make them plausible? 

Any thoughts?  Any Severan experts out there aware of this sort of thing?  I always thought limes were exclusively silver, but there were a ton of Claudius AE imitations minted in Gaul in the first century.  Did this happen again, as Jacquier suggests, in Severian-era Gaul?  Are these supposed to be quadrans?  Please share.  

This is interesting.  Thank you for sharing the knowledge and the coins @seth77

Here is what I think is an Antioch early portrait of Severus Alexander - I posted it on CT a few years ago and the consensus was "Eastern" rather than "Rome." This is the third or fourth ancient I ever purchased, long ago:

Severus Alexander      Denarius (222-223 A.D.) Antioch or Eastern Mint IMP C M AVR S[EV AL]EXAND AVG, laureate, draped bust right / PIETAS AVG Pietas standing left, holding right hand over altar, incense box in left arm. RIC IV 292; BMCRE 1057. (2.75 grams / 19 x 16 mm) Columbus, Ohio c. 1987   $23.00

13 minutes ago, lordmarcovan said:

Almost looks like a damnatio!

I know!  But I thought everybody liked Marcus Aurelius?  

The sestertius version of Philip I "the Arab" Adventus issue, just in this past week - it is pretty nice for one of mine, but the edges have been bashed in here and there - some auctions like to call this a gaming piece conversion, but I don't know, I wasn't there and I didn't do it:

Philip I  Æ Sestertius (245 A.D.)  Rome Mint  (2nd Officina; 4th emission) IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG, laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right / ADVENTVS AVGG  SC in exergue | Philip on horse pacing left, raising right hand,  holding spear (sceptre) in left RIC IV 165; Cohen RSC 6. (18.92 grams / 29 x 26 mm) eBay Nov. 2023 MAW   

Note:  Dates, emission info: CNG: "Rome mint, 2nd officina.  4th emission, AD 245." and "holding scepter" RIC IV 165 corr. (horse left, not right); Banti 2.

British Museum: has six, but with no BMCRE numbers.

Die-Match Obverse:  Classical Numismatic Group Electronic Auction 531; Lot 1155; 25.01.2023

And in any case, you call that a nick?  Now here's a nick for ya - I bought this on eBay because I really loved the overall appearance.  The giant obverse gash appears to be ancient, as it is toned/patinated along with the rest of the coin.  

Gee whiz!  I like it!  A nick like this doesn't bother me at all.  But then I'm a coin-slob...

Does it matter that it is mis-attributed?  It was sold as RIC 38 (136 specimens in OCRE).  But the legends on yours match RIC 54 (18 specimens) - meaning yours is rarer?  There is also RIC 47 (8 specimens) that seems identical to RIC 54, but OCRE often baffles me this way.  So, again, I think yours might be far scarcer than the as sold attribution? 

RIC 38:  C CAESAR AVG GERMANICVS PON M TR POT

RIC 54:  C CAESAR DIVI AVG PRON AVG P M TR P IIII P P

http://numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=deity_facet%3A"Vesta"+AND+portrait_facet%3A"Gaius%2FCaligula"

Great coins in this thread.  Here's a couple showing Juno in her shrine - Trebonianus Gallus and Volusion sestertii.  

Just in the mail, this very worn sestertius showing the adorable young monster Caracalla on both sides.  I've not attributed it yet, but I think it is RIC IV Caracalla 398A dated to 196-197 AD (per OCRE).  This may be one of my top tens for 2023 - despite the massive wear, it has a wonderful green patina with dusty-desert highlights around the devices.  

19 hours ago, Heliodromus said:

Is it a double die match? I tend to agree, but the points on his radiate crown don't seem to align with the legend in the same way.

The legend being strong/weak in same areas does seem very suspicious. There also *seems* to be an outline below Pacatian's bust on Mike's coin that matches the base of Philip's bust on the Hirsch coin. Or, is that the base of Pacatian's own bust ?

Maybe Mike's coin was copied and reworked from the Hirsch one ?

I adjusted the color a bit below to make it look more silvery like the seller's photo.

Gee, I wish you'd do all my coin photography - that color adjustment is an improvement in terms of seeing detail.   That tiny pimple at 10/11 o'clock obverse is interesting - I hadn't noticed it before.  I had noticed the lumpy truncation/drapery area at the bottom of the bust, but have no idea what it means.  

If these are fake, they don't seem to be cast (as I've said before) - especially the Hirsch with its overstrike on a Philip.  I don't understand the mind of the counterfeiter, but this seems like a lot of work to go too for only two examples showing up on the market in 10 years (and one of them somehow winding up on eBay for $50).  But some of them play the long game, I suppose.  Maybe some more will show up on the market. 

Thank you for the effort you put into looking this over.  Even fake, this is interesting.  

3 minutes ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said:

Mike, I took the liberty of contacting a French guy specialist in Pacatian’s coinage and showed him the pictures of your coin. Here is his reply (translated from French), and also a link to an interesting old thread on Forvm plus a link to his website.

« There does indeed seem to be an obverse die connection, but the problem is that for me both coins are undoubtedly modern forgeries. The style is not at all that of Pacatien's coins, and the reverse of sale 298 does not exist for this emperor. The forger went so far as to create an overprint on a coin of Philip, a practice not found on any “official” Pacatian Antoniniani. Sorry PS: maybe you can ask Curtis Clay's opinion, but for me there is no doubt. »

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=46065.msg289328#msg289328

 

http://marchal.thibaut.free.fr/e_index.htm
 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for looking into this - this is good to know, if not what I wanted to hear!   

Although I'm not an expert, I am still somewhat puzzled by the "style" argument, especially for the portrait.  The variations I've seen are numerous - like I said before, like Valerian, who never really has a firmed up "look" the way, say, Philip I does.  My Pacatian portrait (and the Hirsch) just doesn't look like an outlier.  "Art criticism" opinion only!

So the Hirsch is overstruck on a Philip?  I hadn't seen that - it looked double-struck to me, rather than a strike-over.  But now that I look more carefully - yep, that's Philip's chin, and furthermore, that's PHILIPP... faintly in the field.  Interesting!  I feel kind of dumb for not noticing that. 

Thanks for sending that FORVM link - I had not seen it.