Bonshaw

Related question: assuming you are a coin collector, Why?

Why Do We Want This Stuff? Eight Views on the Psychology of Collecting (coinweek.com)

1. Hunting and Gathering

2. Consumerism

3. Prevent and Accept Death

4. Connection with Something Larger

5. Mastery

6. Reducing Anxiety

7. Joy of Buying

8. Return to Childhood

I note that Coinweek doesn't include "love of history"!

Just don't call me a philatelist, and I'm happy.

On 11/24/2023 at 5:02 PM, John Conduitt said:

The Celts left us nothing in writing. If they did (they were literate after all), the Romans destroyed it. But in Norse legend, the wolves Skoll and Hati chase the sun and moon through the sky. Norfolk Wolf staters often include objects that might represent the sun or moon, and so it’s thought the myth was the same for the Celts. This left-facing wolf is chasing the sun, while right-facing wolves chase the moon. Either way they are lean and hungry, eager to eat whichever celestial object is in front of them.
 

Celtic Britons did write, they just borrowed the alphabet, still preserved on their coinage at least after about 50 BC (This was presumably under Roman domination, however.) This from wildwinds, for example

Celtic Britain, Catuvellauni, Tasciovanus, 25 BC-10 AD. AV 1/4 Stater, Typ "Tasci". 1.27 g. TACI around a cross, two crescents at sides, dot in circle to right and below. / TASC, horse cantering right, bucranium in upper left field. Van Arsdell 1692-1; BMC 1641; Wendling 5961; Evans V, 13; Mack 153; VA 1692-1; La Tour XLIII; ABC 2595.

They borrowed both Latin and Greek characters. 

5 hours ago, theotokevoithi said:

Constantine V and Leo IV. 751-775 AD. AE Follis. Syracuse mint. K-LEWN to right and left of Constantine V, bearded on left, and Leo IV, beardless on right, standing facing (usually three-quarter length), each wearing crown and chlamys and holding akakia in arm across their chests; cross between their heads / LEON-DECP downwards to left and right, Leo III, bearded, half-length, standing facing, wearing crown and chlamys and holding cross potent. SB 1569, DOC 19

The effort to produce iconoclastic coins like this by the rulers was a disaster. It is an image - representation but not very much !!!

Constantine v was called copronymus by the people because he peed during baptism ceremony (shit-named). He was loved excessively !.

I was wondering!  I know that "coprolite" is a fossilized animal stool (poop). Copronymus sounded bad.

My main research interest is electrum Lydia lions, pre-Croesus.

This lion decided to pay me a visit and got into my chicken coop the other day. He wouldn't leave until he had his fill, no matter how much noise I made. Not my favorite lion.

What an amazing find!  And what irony!

Cicero himself was known to dislike cistophori. Cicero writes in "De Lege Manilia (de Imperio Cn. Pompei)" about how the fertility of Asia Minor brought large revenues and enormous quantities of cistophori. In Ad Attic, lib. ii. ep. 2., Cicero comments on his vast holdings of cistophori, with some annoyance, "I have in Asia the sum of 400,000 sestertii in cistophori."

When Marcus Tullius Cicero departed as governor of Cilicia, he left his brother Quintus as governor. Quintus had been serving as his legate. Cicero comments to Atticus (his childhood friend a.k.a. Titus Pomponius): "I have written to the city quaestors on my brother Quintus's affairs; take care that they answer, and see what hope there is of obtaining the denarii, otherwise we shall be obliged to content ourselves with Pompey's cistophori." - Ad Attic, lib. ii. ep. 6.

In "On the coins called Cistophori," the Numismatic Chronicle and Journal of the Numismatic Society, 1846-7, M. Du Mersan explains: 

"Pompey brought out of Asia, after the war with Mithridates, besides other immense riches, 17,050 talents of coined silver, more than 25,000,000 of our livres (French). It appears that he had placed his cistophori here, and that the quaestors who paid the salaries of the governors of the provinces wished to pay Quintus Cicero in that coin. That governor wished for Roman money."

It is ironic that the only coins of Cicero were cistophori, which he disliked, preferring denarii.

20 minutes ago, Broucheion said:

Hi @Bonshaw,

It sounds like the updated page lives on one of the Archive.org servers but that new page hasn’t yet propagated to update all the servers with the new links. So, as you long in again, sometimes to link to the server with the newest page and sometimes you don’t.

- Broucheion 

Thanks, this makes sense!

25 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

These two show up as a different page when I search for them on Wayback:
https://www.romanumismatics.com/235-lot-1554-gallienus-bi-antoninianus?auction_id=135&view=lot_detail
https://www.romanumismatics.com/286-lot-1576-aemilian-ar-antoninianus?auction_id=187&view=lot_detail

https://web.archive.org/web/20240502211834/https://www.romanumismatics.com/235-lot-1554-gallienus-bi-antoninianus?auction_id=135&view=lot_detail
https://web.archive.org/web/20240502211235/https://www.romanumismatics.com/286-lot-1576-aemilian-ar-antoninianus?auction_id=187&view=lot_detail

They are all https://www.romanumismatics.com/310-lot-202-sabina-wife-of-hadrian-ar-denarius?auction_id=218&view=lot_detail

Holy cow, you're right!  It seems to be a problem on Wayback, or in the interaction between Wayback and however you fed it the info.   I've never seen that before.

I poked around some more, and it looks like the Wayback Machine is buggy right now. I randomly chose lot 1300 in the same auction, tried to save it, and it wouldn't.  I then went back and tried the page that I had saved in the original example. It briefly flashed a webpage giving the date, and then switched to "not saved."

I waited a minute and tried again, and the web page I saved previously was back in the archive again.

I recommend that we give the Wayback Machine a little time to itself. Maybe it will settle down and start working right again.

2 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Hasn't worked for me. It saved the same page for every url!

@John Conduitt, that is strange. Can I try?  Could you please post a URL that you would like archived, and that presently isn't?

Or, you could DM it to me.

Yes, the stats / description / hammer price for the auction are preserved on these other sites, but not necessarily all of the details.

Saving on wayback ensures that you preserve all of the details of the auction that are on the Roma website to maximize provenance information. The wayback machine preserves links to (and copies of) terms & conditions, everything. It is a "nice to have," not a "have to have."

For me, it is worth it. ALL of these sites are vulnerable. Numisbids / sixbids could go away anytime if the businesses fail, or if management decides to purge their archive or take it offline. ACSearch could disappear if defunded. Even the Internet Archive (a non profit) could be sued out of existence.

For me, it is just one additional way to preserve provenance. The more the better, especially since it is free.

SUGGESTION to any former Roma buyer:

If you want your auction webpage on Roma preserved, even if the romanumismatics.com web page goes away, I suggest that you make sure that it is uploaded on the Wayback Machine.

1) Go to https://web.archive.org/

2) Enter your auction web page into the URL search box. As an example, I'm putting in 

https://www.romanumismatics.com/286-lot-1387-trajan-av-aureus?auction_id=187&view=lot_detail

(example only, I didn't buy this coin)

3) If you see:

-------------

Hrm.
Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.

This page is available on the web!
Help make the Wayback Machine more complete!

((Save this URL on the Wayback Machine))

-------------

This means that this auction is *not* archived. 

4) In that case, click the ((Save this URL on the Wayback Machine)) button

5) Then click "Save Page" button

For this example auction, I get:

"Saving page https://www.romanumismatics.com/286-lot-1387-trajan-av-aureus?auction_id=187&view=lot_detail"

and then "Saving" with a rolling progress icon.

You may have to wait awhile as it lists all of the linked pages that it is crawling.

6) When you get a green "Done!" button, it is archived.

7) To check, go back to https://web.archive.org/, and put in the Roma URL again

I just put in that example URL above, and now I get a calendar, with "Saved 1 time May 2, 2024". Clicking on "May 2, 2024" shows me an archived copy of this sale, including the hammer price.

8 and finally) Record the URL of your auction, so that you can easily find it / refer to it on the Wayback Machine!

And you are done. Your auction web page is preserved in perpetuity.

"7. Roma Numismatics Ltd guarantees the absolute authenticity of all Lots Sold. There is no expiration to this guarantee."

The never expiring guarantee just expired.

@DonnaML, That is the most wonderful family heirloom I have ever seen!

If I had purchased such a thing and knew it was about to be seized by the Manhattan's DA office, I would be strongly tempted to quickly engrave "COPY" on the obverse.

(And no, I neither have the funds to purchase such a thing, nor the will to so deface history. Nonetheless, I would be tempted!)

On 7/29/2022 at 2:15 PM, Nap said:

Frank’s humor is on even more full display in his newsletters for the Albany Numismatic Society.

Resurrecting an old thread on Frank's humor, after his latest auction, I noticed this bio for him in a poetry anthology.

Frank S. Robinson is a graduate of NYU Law School (1970), and served at the New York Public Service Commission as staff counsel and then administrative law judge (1977-97). He is the author of eight books including Albany’s O’Connell Machine(1973), Children of the Dragon (a novel), The Case for Rational Optimism (2009), and Love Poems. Robinson is a professional coin dealer.  He is married to the poet Therese Broderick and has a daughter, Elizabeth. Robinson was appointed to the U.S. Assay Commission by President Nixon in 1972. In 1969, he was the first man to walk on the moon.

Kind of an interesting bio, but also note the deadpan last line.

1 hour ago, theotokevoithi said:

The coins are not in a rush, they are waiting 1000 years patiently. 🙂

This is excellent context

I remember when my father, back in the 1970s, wanted to buy some modern forgeries of ancient coins. He was interested, and he wanted to get an idea of whether he could tell they were fake. (There was no Internet of course)

He went to multiple coin shops, and every dealer he spoke to told him that they never got forgeries. He thought this very unlikely to be true, and concluded that

1) they thought it would be bad for business to even admit that it happens,

or

2) they were worried about liability for accusing their source and not being able to prove their allegations.

Perhaps 50 years later, some of the reasons may be the same.

Happy Sunday!  Unfortunately, I'll have a week delay in posting coin #7/83 of my father's collection. I'm up against some deadlines. As I said at the beginning, I would post *less than* a coin a week (because of life). I'll be back at it next week.

Oh I like this - it made a fascinating frame for this electrum Lydia lion, rather than extending it:

And another one, where it took the task more literally:

@rasiel, this is a remarkable contribution!

I have been looking through Coryssa, and it will benefit my personal research (in archaic Lydian die studies) very much. Kudos.

I will do my main post-2000 auction searching on acsearch to keep load off of your computer, but this is an outstanding benefit to the community.

Beautiful, have you ever used it with cream?

14 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

I completely agree with your entire text, but I find JAZ's question very interesting. How long do we need to distance ourselves from the deeds?

A somewhat exaggerated example - but a question.

If I were to be offered a coin where it is certain that a Roman emperor held it in his hands and kept it himself - even if I knew it was a (negatively) famous Roman emperor who had thousands of people executed in the arena? Yes! Of course! It is a famous emperor - whether negative or positive. Yes! I would even hold the coin in reverence in my hands if I knew that the emperor had also held it in his hands.

Would you have the same admiration for an object that came from the hands of A.H. or Stalin? I would not. No! I wouldn't admire an object that Stalin or Adolf had in their hands. On the contrary - it would disgust me. 

 

It's "strange". I have no problem with a Roman emperor who sent citizens (including children) into arenas for reasons of faith, sent millions of slaves to their deaths, invaded countries and their populations - on the contrary - but I despise more recent dictators and dictators.

Provocative - is there an expiry date at which a despicable dictator becomes a "normal" historical person?

 

It depends on your perspective. I consider Oliver Cromwell as an interesting historical figure, and would be fascinated to own something he valued. But tell that to the Irish

The venom in Terry Woods voice when he sings!

A curse upon you Oliver Cromwell, you who raped our Motherland
I hope you're rotting down in hell for the horrors that you sent
To our misfortunate forefathers whom you robbed of their birthright
"To hell or Connaught" may you burn in hell tonight

This is one 17th century figure who is not yet a "normal" historical person.

On 4/7/2024 at 10:00 AM, Hrefn said:

When precious metal prices increase rapidly, any artifact made of gold or silver becomes subject to a merciless economic calculus.  If the melt price of the object begins to exceed its recent value as a collectible, the temptation to trade it for a quick, anonymous, and liberal cash payment rises as well.   Meanwhile, “Cash for Gold” shops spring up on every street corner.  In the rush to take advantage of the bonanza, desirable coins and jewelry will be swept up into the flood of scrap on its way to the smelter.  I think coins like @AncientJoe’s, above, are relatively safe.   But some beautiful and historic items will be lost.  

Silver prices are still far below their historical highs, and the gold/silver ration is about 85, which is also very high.  If gold prices continue their upward trajectory, I believe it is inevitable that silver will be drawn along in gold’s wake.  I think US coins are relatively safe from the threat of the melting pot, because any US silver coin whose bullion value eclipses its numismatic value can be consigned to the “junk silver” bin.  There is a robust trade in junk silver US coins so there is no advantage to melting it.   Medals and foreign coins will go to the fire.  

As an example, this 50 year old medal commemorates the 1100th anniversary of the discovery of Iceland.  It is massive, weighing 10 Troy ounces of sterling silver.  The obverse, with its incuse and relief elements of a design showing the 4 guardian spirits of the land, is one I find very satisfying.  The reverse is rather ho-hum. 

 

At around $260 dollars for the scrap value, I am not inclined to see it cast into a crucible, even though that exceeds my purchase price. 

But at some price point…. If silver shot up to $100/oz it would be smelter fodder.  Of course, that would only be true if the purchasing power of the US dollar held relatively constant, which is far from certain. 

I have one of these that isn't going into the smelter. Because mine is bronze. Bronze would have to go up in price a lot to smelt it!  I love Kristín Þorkelsdóttir's art, and I love Iceland (although I've only spent one week there back in the 90s).

For those interested, here is a link to Kristín Þorkelsdóttir's banknotes:

Kristin Thorkelsdóttir – Numista

It is interesting to compare the two identical medals, in bronze and silver. Some medals look a lot better in silver. Some look a lot better in bronze. I like the looks of this one better in bronze. Obviously, this is a purely subjective statement.

I'm preparing a post comparing some of the Panticapaeum satyr coins, with very similar satyr representations in both bronze and gold. This is another opportunity for this comparison, in an ancient context with very skilled artisans in both metals.