Barnaba6

Even of we exclude medallions and the gold coinage, 2000 coins is still a big underestimation of the Probus antoniniani types. Much has changed in the last 20 years. But again, it’s also a question of which details we take into account when distinguishing various Probus types. I guess if we arbitrarily exclude some details, we might arrive at ‘only’ 2000 types. I am very curious to study the future revision of RIC V.2 volume if it ever is completed to see how many Probus types the authors will distinguish and which criteria they will use to distinguish various types: where will they draw the line?

There are 5,041 Probus coins in total in the probuscoins.fr database. Many however are duplicates. I would say that there may be roughly 3,000 different Probus variants in the probuscoins.fr database. I am insufficinetly versed in the coinage of the remamining emperors to authoritatively say whether Probus was indeed the emperor to have struck the most different types among all Roman emperors, but I would bet my money that Probus is at least in the top three. Perhaps specialists of remaining emperors may weigh in. Though we should be aware that when talking about more than 10,000 Probus types, we are talking about sometimes very minor details and minor differences e.g. different types of cuirass (within the same genral bust type), different shield decorations, whether the wreath ties of Probus' corona radiate are spread or joined, whether the obverse legend id dotted or not etc. Not all of these differences would be caracterized under a different "number" in a standard catalogue (e.g. in the revised edition of RIC V.2 if such revised edition ever is completed, which I start to have doubts about).

Great. I still have som very nice SOLI INVICTO types and military busts. I will let you know as soon as my next auction is online.

You underestimate the coinage of Probus. Probus has way over 10,000 coins. The biggest collection of Probus coins in the world is in the Vienna Musuem. It is mostly based on the collection of Alexander Missong who collected about 11,000 different Probus coins in the 19th century. I have not counted all the reverse types and bust types, but 200 reverse types and 50 bust types sounds about right as far as antoniniani only are concerned. There were indeed ten mints operating under Probus with up to 9 officinae in some mints. However, if we add Probus gold coinage and bronze small and large medallions, we get more than 200 reverses and 50 busts (especially when considering that there were e.g. at least 10 different decorations of the shield alone under Probus). You also forgot to add almost 100 different obverse legends, including various combinations of desirable titles like DEO ET DOMINO, PERPETVO (Probus was the only emperor to use such a title in his regular coinage) , BONO (a title unique in the whole Roman coinage), INVICTVS, CONS II, III, IIII and V. So that is a potential for thousands of combinations! I myslef specialize(d) in Probus and Aurelian coins. In the past 12 years I collected about 1,900 Probus coins and almost 400 Aurelian coins. My whole collection is online: www.colleconline.com/en/collections/3268/barnaba6 I am currently in the process of selling my specialized Probus/Aurelian collection. I have already organized about 15 auctions in the past 2,5 years and there will be more this year so stay tuned. regards, Barnaba

I will organize another auction or perhaps even two more auctions of my Probus coins this year so stay tuned:)

Hi @dougsmit I suspect the EID MAR affair has affected my March sale (e-sale 107): https://www.romanumismatics.com/e-sale-107/2023-03-16?catId=&cat_id=42&closedLots=0&currency=10&excl_keyword=&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=5000&ipp=10&keyword=&load_till_page=1&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=20&page_no=1&search_lot_no=&sort_by=lot_number&view=bidders The results of my March sale were not great (I guess the auction could have gone much worse under the circumstances but the results - on average - save for a few nice exceptions - were below my expectations). However, yesterday's auction was a great success so I do not think the above affair had in any way affected yesterday's sale. I have not seen the Aaron Berk video and was not aware of it. I have just had a look and now see that it might have helped my yesterday's sale and especially contributed to the final price of lot 1343: https://www.romanumismatics.com/273-lot-1343-probus-bi-antoninianus?arr=0&auction_id=174&box_filter=0&cat_id=42&department_id=&exclude_keyword=&export_issue=0&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=5000&image_filter=0&keyword=&list_type=list_view&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=15&month=&page_no=1&paper_filter=0&search_type=&sort_by=lot_number&view=lot_detail&year= This coin was mentioned and showed in Aaron's video (and I mean this coin exactly!). I guess after initial hesitations and concerns (which affected my sale in March), I think people have just realized that Roma Numismatics continues to operate as usual, regardless of the EID MAR affair, organizes new auctions, meets all their contractual obligations towards both buyers as well as consignors etc., so there are no major risks associated with bidding at their auctions. As per your coin, it was struck by the 4th unspecified eastern mint "discovered" by prof. Sylviane Estiot in her article " 'L’Empereur et l’usurpateur: un 4e atelier oriental sous Probus'; Studies in ancient coinage in honor of Anndrew Burnett, Spink, London, 2015". I have (had) the same type from the same officina from the same 3rd emmission in my collection: https://www.colleconline.com/en/items/181932/coins-antique-c-to-a-roman-republican-imperial-probus-3rd-emmission-off-5-sold

Dear All, Thank you to all bidders for their very active participation in yesterday's e-sale 108. The auction was a great success thanks to you! I am very happy with the results and hope my coins will be appreciated by their new owners! It is a great joy and huge satisfaction for me to know that I am not the only one to truly appreciate my (ex) Probus coins:)

The auction is tomorrow. Good luck to all bidders!

Beautiful coin indeed and in great style. Congrats!

One important informtion for those who want to bid but may not be well versed in the current market prices of rare and/or beautiful Probus coins. The estimate prices given by Roma are significantly undervalued. It is Roma's sales strategy. In reality, most coins - if sold separately, not as part of a larger Probus selection - are easily worth double of the estaime prices and in some cases much, much more than that. Any coin that will go for the estimate price or - even more so - for the starting price, is a bargain for the potential buyer and a big loss to me as the seller. So don't rely on the estimate prices but do your research and check historic prices of silimilar / same specimens! I wish lots of luck to all bidders!

Hi, yes, I do accept direct offers on all my remaining coins which are not currently on auction. Have a look at my collection and let me know which coins you are interested in: https://www.colleconline.com/en/collections/3268/barnaba6 I will give you my prices on the coins selected by you. All coins not marked as sold or reserved are available for sale.

Hello, Another nice selection of my rare Probus and Aurelian coins will be hammered by Roma Numismatics Limited on 13 April 2023:https://www.romanumismatics.com/e-sale-108/2023-04-13?catId=&cat_id=42&closedLots=0&currency=10&excl_keyword=&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=5000&ipp=10&keyword=&load_till_page=1&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=15&page_no=1&search_lot_no=&sort_by=lot_number&view=biddersThe auction will also appear on sixbid, numisbids and biddr.ch websites.Most of the coins offered are again in beautiful condition, with full or nearly full original silvering and superbly struck details. These are often some of the best or even the best known specimens of particular types.Many of the coins offered are true rarities, known from only a few examples, and unpublished in reference catalogues like RIC, MPR or Alfodi. You may have come across my last auction on 16 March 2023 (Roma Numismatics e-sale 107) or one of my 10 previous specialized Probus auctions organized by Rzeszowski Dom Aukcyjny and Gabinet Numizmatyczny Damian Marciniak auction houses over the last 2 years. In November 2022 I have decided to change the selling venue from Poland to the UK and consign my coins to Roma Numismatics Limited. I am proud that my coins are offered under a separate section, devoted uniquely to my collection. I hope you participate actively in the auction and wish you all good luck and many successful bids!

Great choice @DonnaML. Both coins are very rare and interesting. Congrats and thanks for your purchases again!

Thank you @Al Kowsky. My pleasure. Actually I will have another equally interesting group of Probus coins at Roma’s e-sale 108 in April for sale. Will post the link as soon as the auction is online. I consigned 104 Probus and Aurelian coins in total to Roma Numismatics in November to be sold in two consecutive e-auctions in March and April, before the news emerged about Mr. Beale, so it’s too late now to back off with the second sale. But since the March auction did not go too bad, I hope the April auction does even better.

Thanks @Severus Alexander for your participation in the auction and congrats for winning this interesting group lot, especially at this bargain price. I certainly hoped for a higher price for this particular lot and am amazed nobody else fought for it, but good for you:) happy to know that you are happy at least. The A9 bust ex Gysen is definitely the most interesting coin of the three although not as nicely preserved as the remaining two.

Hi. Thanks for your message. I am moderately satisfied. It certainly could have gone much worse under the circumstances but it also could have gone better I think.

Thank you @DonnaML for your participation in the auction despite the circumstances and Congratulations for winning the two lots. I hope you will be happy with them. Not sure exactly which ones you actually bought, some lots sold very well indeed from my perspective, above expectations, others not so much, but as a general rule you should know that the estimate prices of most coins were significantly undervalued and had little to do with the actual real market prices. So the fact that you paid many times over the estimate prices does not necessarily mean that you overpaid but rather paid the current fair market price.

Congrats @Tejas! Great and rare Probus bust at a bargain price. If I still collected Probus coins and did not have this bust in collection I would have easily given three times the hammer price. This is my example from another officina (A) ex Philippe Gysen collection: https://www.colleconline.com/en/items/125993/coins-ancient-to-romans-imperial-and-republican-alfoldi-009-036-sold I agree your new coin would look much better if cleaned professionally but even now it's still quite ok, especially for this price.

@DonnaML, Thank you for your empathy. I appreciate it. This is indeed troubling news and obviously I can’t say that I feel comfortable. I had no idea about this matter until yesterday. The allegations against Mr. Beale are certainly serious and - if true – will likely lead to serious legal consequences for Mr. Beale. However, let us not forget that the criminal case is not against the Roma Numismatics company but against Mr. Beale personally. As of now, there are no worrying signs pertaining to Roma Numismatics itself. In particular, there is no information suggesting that consignors are not receiving their due payments or that buyers are not receiving the coins purchased from Roma (including coins sold at Roma's recent e-sale no. 106). At least I am not aware of any such complaints and I am sure that people would publicly share their complaints on various forums if they had them. On the contrary, Roma’s auctions are continuing to run as usual. I can confirm that I received a standard advance payment from Roma in January (i.e. already after the arrest of Mr. Beale as it now turns out) for the coins which I consigned as per our consignment agreement. I am in regular contact with Roma’s staff, receive all the pre-sale reports and other information etc. Roma’s staff is very responsive. All seems normal. Not underestimating the accusations against Mr. Beale personally, in the lack of any specific evidence pertaining to Roma’s current operations, I think we should avoid questioning the safety of buying and selling through Roma Numismatics. Any potential panic – if sufficiently widespread – might kill even the strongest companies, regardless of whether such panic is justified. So I would nevertheless encourage you Donna to bid on the Probus coins which interest you. I can assure you that the provenance of the coins stated by Roma in this case is true: they all come from my personal collection and I am indeed a "Polish connoisseur of Probus coins". I acquired my coins from reputable European auction houses in the last 12 years and most coins have prior documented provenances (prior to entering my own collection). Furthermore, unlike coins leading to the arrest of Mr. Beale, my Probus coins are not worth hundreds of thousand or millions of pounds a piece (alas!), so I don’t see why there should be any problems in exporting them safely to the US by Roma after the sale. Ultimately, it is always the bidder’s individual decision whether to bid or not on a particular lot at a particular auction.

By the way, here is a link to my whole collection https://www.colleconline.com/en/collections/3268/barnaba6 I have marked all the coins which are already sold. I will have many souvenirs of my collection but this website will definitely be one of my best souvenirs.

Thank you for your kind comments. Probus coins are in general very interesting and diverse and hence worthy not only of Probus specialist's but also generalist's consideration. Over the years I have discovered that there are not that many Probus specialists like myself, which collect only Probus coins and have say at least 100 Probus coins in ther collection. On the other hand, there are plenty of Roman Coins collectors who do appreciate Probus coins and like to have at least few, sometimes more, of his coins in their collections.

I agree. They really did a good job (though I did help a bit with the desriptions as well).

Hello, 52 rare Probus and Aurelian coins carefully selected from my specialized collection will be hammered on the 16 March 2023 by Roma Numismatics Limited:https://www.romanumismatics.com/e-s...earch_lot_no=&sort_by=lot_number&view=biddersThe auction will also soon appear on sixbid, numisbids and biddr.ch.Most of the coins offered are in beautiful condition, with full or nearly full original silvering and superbly struck details. These are often some of the best or even the best known specimens of particular types.Many of the coins offered are true rarities, known from only a few examples, and unpublished in reference catalogues like RIC, MPR or Alfodi. You may have come across one of my 10 previous specialized Probus auctions organized by Rzeszowski Dom Aukcyjny and Gabinet Numizmatyczny Damian Marciniak auction houses over the last 2 years. I have recently decided to change the selling venue from Poland to the UK and consign my coins to Roma Numismatics Limited. I am very proud that my coins are offered under a separate section, devoted uniquely to my coins. Thank you Roma for this privilege!I hope you participate actively in the auction and wish you all good luck and many successful bids!

@maridvnvmNice one Martin. I also have a SEC example: https://colleconline.com/en/items/125758/coins-ancient-to-romans-imperial-and-republican-probus-ric-401-sold I also have seen but never managed myself to acquire the short "SAE" variant. Fortunately, I did manage to get the much rarer and more desirable RESTITVTOR SECV reverse: https://colleconline.com/en/items/125761/coins-ancient-to-roman-republic-imperial-probus-ric-405-sold

By the way, as far as Probus Restitvt/Restitvtor Saec/Sec/Sae coins from Ticinum are concerned, I have seen Probus Florian like portraits only on the longer (unlisted in RIC) reverse legend variants (i.e. RESTITVTOR SAEC/SEC), never on the shorter RESTITVT SAEC/SEC variants (listed in RIC V.2 under no. 401). These RIC 401 var. Florian like portraits are often obverse die matches with coins from the 1st emmission. This supports the thesis that the long "Restitvtor" variants were struck BEFORE the shorter "Restitvt" variants. I do not think the above observation has been published so far in any numismatic book or article. Please correct me if I am wrong (I have a pretty good knowledge of the Probus numismatic literature and research but of course I might have missed something). The above observation is one of many I have made during my 10 years of collecting Probus. This has always been one of the beauties of Probus collecting for me. That even a layman collector (i.e. not a numismatic scholar or a professional dealer) may make new discoveries and push the boundaries of hitherto knowledge about Probus coinage.