Coinmaster

That's great @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, thanks! There was also debate if the coin was a coin or a pendant. I think it's a coin!

Thanks for this @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix! I just contacted Jerome about an interesting find of a new Postumus coin type in The Netherlands. The obverse is new, the reverse is a die match with an aureus in his dissertation (no. 323) and dated late 264-early 265. I will write a short article about it next year. Interestingly, the reverse shows a temple of Roma. Because of the special obverse (with frontal emperor) I think the issue marks therefor some kind of celebration. Perhaps the opening of a new built temple, or an offering at the temple after a won battle or so. I was looking into Roma-temples and it seems there are a few in both Köln and Trier. I found this website, but was not yet able to use it to select the known Roma temples.

Congrats!!

Hi all, I've done some in depth research and made a complete inventory of all the PIETAS-TRIB coins that I could find from Aelius. This learned me a lot.
First, I've found 28 aurei of this type. 16 aurei are with head left and 10 of those are a double die match. I also found 12 aurei with head right: 11 with double die match. One of these turned out to be a new variant(!) (almost without drapery). Only 4 denarii seems to exist (all with head right), none with a die match with the aurei. So it seems the denarii are much more rare than the aurei. Of the denarii, 2 are with double die match and all 4 have a reverse die match. I also found 2 plated denarii with head left (both different than the other coins) and 1 fake denarius, based on an aureus - see below (see also this page for more (different) fake coins from Aelius).
To conclude: this whole Aelius-PIETAS-TRIB-cointype is rare, with mostly double die matches. The double die match of my own denarius seems now to fit with the rest. As the oldest two denarii from the Vienna collection have a collection history before 1923 (see before) and have a reverse die match with my coin, it seems highly unlikely my own denarius is a (modern) fake. I hope you agree.
Below are the unique obverses and reverses of the coins. The numbers correspond with the coins (from left to right).

Thank you for your oppinion @Valentinian! This really asks for a deep dive into the Aelius coins! You might be wright (I hope you don't haha!), so let's analyze this coin production.
 

Abdy (2019) writes in RIC about this coin type: RIC II, Part 3² Hadrian 2714 (with image plate 48, see also above), with reference to Strack 399 and to 'RÖ 10039' (see below).

Seaby (1979, 3rd ed.) writes on p.163 about this coin type (42a, see attachment), with reference to BMC (see below), and again to Strack 399 (collections 'Sofia and Vienna'). The 2 coins from Vienna I have found (see attachments), the one from Sofia I couldn't find online. 

Strack (1933) refers to this publication: Strack, Paul L. Untersuchungen zur römischen Reichsprägung des zweiten Jahrhunderts, Teil II: Die Reichsprägung zur Zeit des Hadrian. (Stuttgart, 1933). Unfortunately, I can't find this PDF online. If somebody have this publication, I'd be grateful if coin no. 399 could be found and shared? I think Strack 399 and RÖ 10039 is the same coin, but I'd like to be sure.

Mattingly (1936) writes about the BMC. On page 368 in note 1003 there is mention about a PIETAS denarius of this type in Mouchmov (1912), p.45 (see also the attachment). I've checked this publication, but could find it(?), see here. At least this coin type seems to exist in 1912.

In the online collection of Vienna/Wien I found this beautiful denarius of this Aelius type, which originates from the collection of Ernst Moritz Herzfelder (1865-1923). See attachment (RÖ 40893) and here.

In this same collection also the above mentioned RÖ 10039 (see attachment and here).

Finaly, two plated coins are known, this one from the BMC and this one from the CNG auction. The reverse differs but the obverse is a die match I think. Both with head left.

About the 'waves', I'm not so sure. I do see them like the downward curl on the mustache. Here some examples with more or less waves: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. But than again: I'm realy not sure. 

To conclude: there seems to exist, at least from 1912 onwards, this rare denarius coin type from Aelius with the letters TRIB on the reverse instead of TR. The coins from the collection in Vienna have a reverse die match. The earlier shown coins have both a obverse and reverse die match. I think they are also reverse die match with the older coins from Vienna, look for example to the letter P from PIE, that is a little elevated and almost touch the letter B from TRIB (see the four reverses in the latest image below). I think it's save to conclude this coin type is at least rare.

Many thanks for your opinions!

Hi all, I've checked all the coins I could from this denarius type. It looks like my coin is a double die match. What do you think? Also, the reverse of the plate coin from RIC II, Part 3² Hadrian 2714 looks like a die match with the other two?

PS: I still don't know what the reference source: RÖ 10039 stands for. Who knows this riddle?
PS2: I don't know how to customize the photos, they are a bit too large now when pasting.

How interesting: 'A good case can be made that Aelius may actually have been the illegitimate son of Hadrian, with perhaps the strongest evidence being that after Aelius' death he mourned for him like a lost son, and even made the adoption of Lucius Verus by Antoninus Pius a condition of Pius' adoption by Hadrian. Hadrian had also arranged the engagement of Aelius' daughter, Fabia, to Pius, so in reality he arranged for Aelius' son to become an Augustus and Aelius' daughter to become an Augusta. The adoption of Aelius was marked by games and a donative.'

Source: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Aelius

Thanks @JeandAcre! Yes, I've seen this and some other types from Jelling/Bluetooth. I even speculated it might be a single gold Viking issue, but that seems too far fetched (and also rejected by other specialists)..

@JeandAcre @Roerbakmix and all other coin friends, as promised the link to the article about this interesting coin type. Please let me know what you think!
https://www.academia.edu/112015541/_2024_A_unique_medieval_gold_coin_from_the_Netherlands (my 245th article, 5 to go and my life is fulfilled haha)

Interesting topic! There seems discussion about how many coins were struck with an obverse die. The oldest source I know dates from 1301 England, where was stated that the average output that year of a die was (an incredible) 42.000 coins. Average, so some dies might even hit 50.000 coins.

Of course this amount can't just be used for Roman coins (thicker coins, quality of the dies, type of metal, etc.), but when people suggest it was no more than 5.000 or 10.000, I find this less likely. I think an average between 20.000-30.000 per obverse die could be achieved.

Also, I understood the Esty-formula about how many dies could be made is not without discussion, but unfortunately I don't understand statistics very well..

@El Cazador, the coin arrived! I made a few photos, I hope they're good enough. What do you think, fake or not? The rim differs in thickness and has some cracks. But 'm no expert in this.

6 hours ago, CPK said:

One thing I haven't quite solved yet is exactly how I want to label the coins in the cabinet. There's not much room for information on a small square/circle so I have to decide what I want to include and what not. Descriptions of the obverse/reverse are too lengthy to include. Originally I'd thought to record ruler, material/denomination, size and weight, reference number, and personal collection number.

In a coin cabinet I'd like to look only at the coins. I know in general which coin is from a specific emperor. All specifications I keep in an Excel document and the background information (incl. life description, auction details and provenance) I keep in seperate Word documents. If you want, you could just give each coin (or each coin socket in a tray) a number that correspond with a Word document/description. You could print that and have all needed information at hand beside your coin cabinet. 👍🏻

Great work @CPK!!

I’m still pleased with my own cabinet, see: 

1 hour ago, El Cazador said:

Looks suspicious , might be cast… I would check with some other local dealers if you have achance

The coin will be posted after the holidays, so I haven't seen it in hand. It's not from Ebay but from a dealer. I checked on beforehand if this coin is listed (by Ilya Prokopov), but this one is (fortunately) not. Because this denarius type doesn't exist in the previous RIC, I think it's genuine. But of course, you never know when buying online. Thanks for your warning.

On 12/12/2023 at 5:26 AM, Curtisimo said:

Through my own research I was able to recover a great unlisted provenance for this coin.

@Curtisimo, this is just fantastic. Please tell me how you approach such a research on the provenance of coins?

And many thanks for sharing this great topic and wonderful coin. A true gem in your collection!

Hi all, I've just acquired this interesting denarius from Aelius. Who? Aelius, the almost emperor:

Lucius Aelius Caesar (13 January 101 – 1 January 138) was the father of Emperor Lucius Verus. In 136, he was adopted by the reigning emperor Hadrian and named heir to the throne. He died before Hadrian and thus never became emperor. After Lucius' death, he was replaced by Antoninus Pius, who succeeded Hadrian the same year. (see more here)

On the front: L AELIVS CAESAR, reverse: TRIB POT COS II // PIETAS (in field), Pietas standing right, raising hand and holding incense box; to right, altar. Struck in Rome, 137.
What attracted me was not only the nice portrait, but the additional letters IB on the reverse. This makes this coin the latest denarius of Aelius. It seems (very?) rare as well. The coin was wrongly determined by the seller as RIC 438. It turned out to be RIC II, Part 3 (second edition) Hadrian 2714. On page 258 I see two references, among this plated copy. Another reference is 'rö 10039', although I can't find what this abbreviation stands for? An image is shown on plate 48 (2714). I guess this denarius was struck around these same last days of December, as the ailing Aelius exchanged the temporary for the eternal on the 1st of January 138.

Please share your Aelius coins below, thanks!

Metal detecting is definitely the cause for increasing amount of coins. But because of aging of the population in several continents and because of internet and inflation, I don't see prices dropping for the next say 20-30 years. After this however, who knows? Perhaps the digitalization of money cause more people to care less about coins in general. But than again, this will take a while.

You’re such a specialist Donna, always great to read your topics!

I’m also curious about the why of your acquisitions, perhaps you can add this to future posts.

Enjoy your coins!

Interesting coin and topic!

The beads differs in size on both sides. I’d say it’s genuine. But on the other hand, the clear letters of the name on the obverse are indeed suspicious. However, perhaps not impossible.

So.., it’s 50/50!

You could ask Ilya Prokopof.

At least, even if it’s fake, this interesting coin is worth 50,- and surely a nice birthday present, congrats!

I just acquired this denarius from Nerva, struck in 98 (RIC II 43, Cohen 89, BMC 66, CBN 49).
The standing Libertas on the reverse side could be better, but I like coins where all letters are readable. For me, the obverse has an appealing portrait and what I also like is the title GERM(anicus) on the obverse. Nerva started using the title GERM after he adopted Trajan as his successor, in late October of the year 97. 
 

Quote

As governor of Upper Germany (Germania Superior) during Nerva's reign, Trajan received the impressive title of Germanicus for his skilful management and rule of the volatile Imperial province.

(source)

As Nerva died on 28 January 98, this would mean this coin type was only produced between 1-28 of January. I'd imagine the coin production could start from October 97 onwards, but RIC says otherwise (production in 98). Any thoughts and/or info about this?
 

On 11/30/2023 at 1:37 PM, CPK said:

I read a paper once theorizing that the emperor actually didn't have much of a hand in coin design, or even approval of a design, and that it was pretty much wholly up to the mint masters

Oef, I highly disagree. For me it's a no-brainer that the propaganda and other messages on coins, including hair styles of the empress, was NOT left to the mint masters. Perhaps SOME coins (very general, no message at all, with general portrait based upon other coin types) was left to the decision of other court members, instead of the emperor.

See also for example: 
https://www.academia.edu/77925941/Coins_and_Messages_Audience_Targeting_on_Coins_of_Different_Denominations and 

https://graduatejournal-leap.universiteitleiden.nl/2021/06/gabriel-de-klerk-displays-of-power-imperial-ideology-on-the-coinage-of-galba-during-the-crisis-of-68-69-a-d/.

If possible, I'd like an emoticon 'Congrats' to congratulate collectors with new coin acquisitions.

Wow Donna, congrats!

I wonder why this coin is so scarce? Any thoughts? I like the earthquake suggestion as opposite to 'TELLVS STABIL'

Thanks all for sharing these great coins!!

High on my wish list are coins from both Laelianus and Marius. As these are not yet in my possession, maybe you can sheer me up with some inspirational pictures of your coins?

For your information:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/lateromancoinage/gallic/marius.html
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ERIC - LAELIANUS
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ERIC - MARIUS
https://web.archive.org/web/20211028223235/http://www.roman-emperors.org/laelianu.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20211110214648/http://www.roman-emperors.org/marius.htm

PS: Does anyone have these (digital?!) publications? I wonder if these provide more information than RIC?
Gilljam, H.H., Antoniniani und Aurei des Ulpius Cornelius Laelianus, Gegenkaiser des Postumus (Koln, 1982).
Gilljam, H.H., 269 LAELIANUS. Erganzungen zur materialsammlung ; verwendung seiner reversstempel unter MARIVS (Koln , 1986).