ewomack

I have loved coins, I love coins, and I probably will always love coins. But I really hate spending money on them. They represent mostly guilty pleasures and luxuries. I went through times when I knew, absolutely, that I had a serious coin addiction. If I returned from a coin show empty handed, I went into a temporary depression, or something very close to it. I often bought coins merely for the sake of buying them. The vast majority of those purchases now sit in the "regrets" pile. I still need to sell them. Instead of giving up the hobby altogether, which I didn't really want to do, I started tracking every purchase. Looking at the cumulative total periodically provided an early warning sign for over-spending. It worked. I also forced myself to become extremely picky. As others have said, if I don't think I will enjoy a coin in 5 years time or more (which isn't an easy thing to estimate, of course, but the exercise helps inspire a different kind of thinking), then I won't buy it. No more impulse buys. So no auctions. My most recent purchases took days, and one took weeks, of deliberation, research, and thinking before clicking the "buy" button. If the coin vanished in the interim that just made the situation easier. If I lost interest in the coin in the interim, which happens, then all the better I didn't buy it. Now a coin needs to "speak to me" in some kind of ineffable way for me to even consider buying it. This "speaking" doesn't always make sense, but I know it when I feel it. No more buying to impress other collectors, either. Some above also mentioned that forums can, for some people, feed a sort of "peer pressure" to buy and show off the nicest possible coins. I'm not saying that forums are trying to do this, I don't know, but that is definitely one impact that they can have on some collectors. It's something to be extremely careful about, especially when one sees posts of expensive coins, usually gold, receiving mounds of attention and congratulations and more modest examples receive only a few simple "likes." For those susceptible to these psychological situations - I have been - buy as if forums don't exist. Or, in other words, would you still buy the coin if you had absolutely no one to show it to? All of these thoughts, and others, have kept my coin buying mostly under control in recent times. I still think I buy too many, but I know I would buy many more without keeping these thoughts in mind. I also never want to buy a coin that would prove a financial burden all by itself. As such, I could never spend $5,000 or $10,000 on a single coin, no matter how much I liked it. Something like that would end up locked away safe in a vault and likely never seen again. I would be too worried to bring it home. That's not fun at all, at least not to me (if purchased as a true investment, that's another story). To provide some kind of borderline for budgetary "safe" purchases, I've decided on a rough limit of somewhere between $250 to $300. Purchasing something above that amount feels too uncomfortable for a hobby. I can also easily shelter against that amount of loss were something to happen to the coin. Of course, I would go a little above that for the right coin, but it would have to be a blazing specimen. For example, I recently saw a coin on a dealer's site for $350 that I would love to buy, but it's over the specified limit and it's not "nice enough" for me to pursue, or so I tell myself. A few years ago, I would have already bought it, likely without having thought too much at all. Coin buying can easily become addictive, just like any other collecting hobby. Rationalizations can cause further out of control buying. Threads like this help people like me stay within safe boundaries. It's good to revisit this topic once in a while, which this forum seems to do a few times a year.

I too have received many packages, not only ones containing coins, with old stamps plastered on them. I usually don't keep them, but i take photos for reference. The upside is the fun is seeing the stamps, some of which go back a decade or more. A lot of stamps had amazing designs and themes. The downside is that many stamps now have more value as postage than they have as collectibles. That market has, for the most part, crashed (with exceptions, of course). I guess they at least still have some value.

The Elongated Collectors is a serious group of people who collect and study elongated coins: https://tecnews.org/ They publish an impressive newsletter and send members elongated coins a few times a year. I know firsthand because I joined them a few years ago. Though I did enjoy being a member, I gradually found that I didn't enjoy elongated coins enough to continue (i.e., not my thing), so I dropped after a year or two. But anyone who has more than a passing interest in this subject will learn oodles by joining and reading their newsletter.

I recently acquired my first coin depicting Jesus. So, I guess I could consider it my own "Personal Jesus." I mean, it is mine, after all, at least for a while. Romanus IV Diogenes AD (1068-1071); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class G, Obv: IC-XC to left and right of bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, right hand raised, scroll in left, all within border of large dots; Rev: MP-ΘV to left and right of Mary, nimbate, ands raised, all inside border of large dots; 26-28 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1867

Thanks for the suggestions for sources! I did recently secure a larger-than-I-expected copy of the Grierson book. Just freshly arrived, I have yet to begin to read it. I will also have to explore the ANS Monogram series - I have seen the Bellinger article sited elsewhere, so this recent citation makes it even more interesting. The link to augustuscoins is also very helpful as well. I'll give that a good read. I would also love to have physical copies of the Dumbarton Oaks books, but they come at quite the premium. So perhaps I'll deal with the digital versions for now.

Thank you for all of the comments and for sharing all of the great examples of this type. I'm glad that the coin I picked up is a decent example, because I'm never really sure with Byzantines. I almost didn't buy it because of the wear on Mary's head on the reverse. The obverse does look amazing in hand, so I'm not regretting adding it to my pile. What I do regret is not going to the local ancient coin club's meeting some months ago. The presentation that night was called "depictions of Jesus on Byzantine coins" and, being on a weeknight, I just felt too tired to go. I wish I had dragged myself there. Oh well, next time they present something interesting I will drag myself there. Is there a definitive source on the Anonymous Folles? Sear and Sayles have sections in their books on them, though somewhat brief. I'm curious if other sources exist, because they are very fascinating coins.

In my little over a year of Byzantine collecting, I had not stumbled across an Anonymous Follis for a decent price with what I considered a decent portrait of Christ. I expected to first pick up a Class A and move my way up the alphabet of classes, but this Class G's obverse stuck out to me, so I started there instead. If only the portrait of Mary on the reverse didn't have the wear on it, but, especially for a Byzantine, it's fairly acceptable. The historical element of these coins fascinates me because of the history of iconoclasm within Byzantium a few centuries prior to this type's appearance. The iconodules clearly won that messy and sometimes violent battle, as this coin demonstrates. It also helps manifest the intriguing and still largely unappreciated history of a fascinating and highly religious empire, complete with all of its ensuing pros and cons. As I've said before, I'm not a particularly religious person, but I find coins like this an endless source of interest and fascination. Romanus IV Diogenes AD (1068-1071); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class G, Obv: IC-XC to left and right of bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, right hand raised, scroll in left, all within border of large dots; Rev: MP-ΘV to left and right of Mary, nimbate, ands raised, all inside border of large dots; 26-28 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1867

I'm guessing that this thread, just like the Byzantine empire itself back in 1453, has come to an end? I'm going to miss all of the fantastic Byzantine coins that appeared in constant streams over the past few months. I wish I had had more to contribute, but my Byzantine acquisitions only began about a year ago. I haven't reached even twenty specimens in my entire collection yet. I'm also happy that more Byzantine collectors exist on this site than I realized. Byzantine coins seem like the "secret back room" of ancients that only a few brave (and possibly eccentric) folk tread into and stay for any length of time. I still don't know why they have captured my interest so fervently, but I'm still looking at them and buying them. An Anonymous Follis of Class G should appear in my mailbox within the next week, I hope. Thanks again for a great ride! I hope to see more Byzantine posts here in the future!

Fantastic octopus! Love it!

Definitely! Let the archeologists to be ponder this one... That one likely won't last another 20 years, though... in fact, I should probably check on it... it may have dissolved away already...

This comment applies to just about every auction site, not just those for coins: I generally dislike the "irrational exuberance" that seems to often go with auctions. @kirispupis comments about the high auction bid above triggered that thought in me. Sometimes one can find bargains and under bids, but, in my experience, coins (or other things) I want generally skyrocket to prices that I would never have even considered paying for them. I don't know if people get competitive, or exhilarated by the process itself, but in general I find that many auctions seem to bring out the irrational in people. I'm speaking from experience, because it's also happened to me at least once or twice. So, I tend to, or try to, avoid them.

A part of me definitely misses the days of driving to the local coin shop, deciding on something tasty in their inventory, buying it, and then taking it home with me instantaneously. If anything happened to the item(s) in transit, I had no one to blame but myself. One can still take this course, obviously, but the Internet offers so much more choice, sometimes to a nearly stultifying degree, that perusing and clicking "buy" online can manifest wonders often otherwise unavailable. A month or two ago, when my surprise import duty appeared one day via email, at least after a week following ordering that particular coin, my frustration reached a hobby-ending intensity. Not to mention the agonizing times that I chased down the postal truck to avoid having to wait an entire weekend to obtain a shipped item that required a signature. 90% of the time, I received the "delivery" notification either via email or text after the truck had already departed down the street, despite leaving a phone number to call in the mailbox. More than once I literally ran after the truck. I have never lost anything of significant value in the mail. The one thing I did lose wasn't worth squawking over: a 5$ 1930s Thelma Todd cigarette card from the UK. It never showed up, I just let the dealer know. But losing something of immense value would be a vastly deflating experience. I'm not sure how I would react to that. After the import duty experience, I vowed to stop buying coins. But I've purchased two more since, one of them overseas, which risked yet another negative experience. But the duty only set me back $50, so the sting wore off quicker than I expected. But losing $1,000, $2,000, or even more would probably send me into paroxysms of anger. I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I've only made orders that large a few times, always for gold. At least one of those orders found me sprinting after the postal truck. Had I lost one of those hefty orders, I may never have ordered such things again. Or at least it would have taken a long time for the agony to cease. I guess, in the end, one either accepts or doesn't accept the tradeoffs and risks of various methods of acquiring things. I've reacted to those by cutting back. So far it's worked for me, but the probability of something nasty still occurring remains greater than 0.

I'll happily wait longer as long as they don't slap an import duty on it. That hurt.

Well, I went and did it again and ordered another coin tonight. Dear me, dear me. So, until that one arrives, this little decanummium of Maurice Tiberius remains my latest ancient. Maurice Tiberius. 582-602. Æ Decanummium 17mm, 3.1g Theoupolis (Antioch) mint. Dated RY 8 (AD 589/90); Obv: blundered legend, Crowned facing bust, wearing consular robe, holding mappa and eagle-tipped scepter; Rev: Large X; cross above, R below; A/N/N/O U/III (date) across field; Sear 536

Maybe I could use the Paypal layaway plan? I mean, that seems reasonable, really. How much is sales tax? I may need a go fund me account... Maybe I should have gone with the 60 day plan?

Collecting preferences seem to vary as much as culinary and music preferences. Everyone brings their own unique history and baggage to how they accumulate objects. Everyone has their own unique constraints and limitations as well. "Experience" thus means different things to different people and there is no one particular path that will 100% distinguish an "experienced" collector from a less experienced one. I've seen indiscriminate hoarders with significant numismatic education and experience, as well as excessively picky beginners who focus on rarities or on condition rarity. There doesn't seem to be any fully established, consistent paths to follow in this hobby. My own preferences have evolved from not picky whatsoever to excessively picky. Years ago, my goal involved buying as many coins as I possibly could without bankrupting myself. I almost did go completely broke at least once, after buying a wonderful US 3¢ silver piece. Thankfully, that happened at an early enough age that my parents would have bailed me out, but nonetheless a vital lesson learned. Back then, condition also didn't concern me as much as affordability, so I bought a number of things that I no longer really enjoy, though they made sense at the time (sort of). I just wanted "good enough" coins that fit my budget and increased the ever-growing pile. As the collection took up more and more space, and depleted more and more funds, I began to worry whether my "collection" really added up to impulsive or addictive buying. The idea that coins can have value, and that they may retain that value, can create a psychological rationalization to purchase them with fewer reservations or caution. The "investment" aspect of the hobby, which always seems to lurk beneath the surface, potentially seeps into and corrupts the act of accumulation and that confirmation bias fuels continued purchases, sometimes leading to buying with total reckless abandon. I think I was approaching that point. I bought coin after coin after coin, but then told myself "they're worth something! They're important artifacts!" which allowed the (arguably destructive) behavior to continue. At that time, my preferences summed up to "is it good enough? can I afford it? Well, then, buy it!" After a considerable break from the hobby, and after it went online, I learned more and more about "problem coins" and realized that I had made many stupid mistakes in my past indiscriminate buying. A few of the really nice coins that I thought I had ended up being heavily cleaned and probably not even close to worth what I paid for them. I decided that, if I wanted to continue in this hobby, I needed to really educate myself about "good buys" versus "bad buys." This is where the "investment" aspect of the hobby probably, or should probably, apply to absolutely everyone, despite the often given advice to "buy only for pleasure." No one should overpay for coins. Continuing on, I read many books, went to many shows and looked at countless things online. I bought a pocket loupe, examined many coins, and learned a lot in the process. More than anything, I started posting my purchases online and asked if they looked "problematic." Though I never expected to make money off of the hobby, I started emphasizing purchases that merged enjoyment with a decent probability that they might retain an acceptable portion of their value over time. A zero tolerance for "junk" emerged simultaneously, which eliminated most of the "manufactured collectibles" from my pile. I sold a number of sets and "collectors" coins, overall at a loss. Some of them I couldn't even sell. Interest in moderns vanished almost overnight and an interest in coins with some aspect of history, or an advanced degree of historicity, increased. Perhaps surprisingly, my historical interest in coins, my latest preference, has led to an emphasis on condition over rarity. When I hold a coin, I like to imagine a historical figure holding it, using it, or imagining what they will purchase with it. Coins in better condition likely, but not always, arguably appear closer to how the actual historical figures probably experienced them. Of course well worn coins also circulated, but the feeling of having a newly minted shiny coin, with clear details, usually gave me a thrill and probably did likewise for many people in the past. This helps me obtain that feeling of a connection with the past, though admittedly probably largely illusory. Heavily worn coins create less of this feeling for me. A similar feeling may explain why people, generation after generation, continue to pay exorbitant amounts for nostalgic items that managed to remain (organically) in their original packaging. As for completeness or rarity, I really don't care about either anymore. Rarity always seemed too expensive to pursue, as I can't imagine paying more than $200-$500 for any non-bullion coin. My preferences now lean more towards coins that exude that historical experience or produce some kind of aesthetic experience for me that I don't think will fade over time. The formula is more intuitive than scientific or rational. It's evolved to the point that I typically know within seconds upon seeing a coin, and gauging its price, whether "that's one of them" or not. As such, I buy very few coins these days. If a coin gives me what I want for an acceptable price, I don't even care if I already have another one of that type. In short, I collect only coins that appeal to me in some personal, and somewhat ineffable, way. I have also completely stopped buying coins with the hope of impressing other collectors. That is a losing game, as someone with more resources will always come along. I hope that I'm to the point, after years in this hobby, where I'm finally collecting what I actually want to collect.

That series has always appealed to me, though I haven't delved into it yet. I possibly have a bigger purchasing problem with books than I have with coins. My reading list seems to have an infinite scroll at the bottom. It never ends and never seems to be complete. My wife tells me that I could have worse problems.

Recently, the vast majority of my coin purchases have originated either from VCoins or MA-Shops. Possibly 100% of them. I have never enjoyed the wild auction scene, even on Ebay, especially when extra fees get tacked on and prices explode irrationally. "Bargains" can exist in that realm for sure, but they can also take time and effort to find. I would just rather know what I'm paying up front without a battle to an uncertain finish. I also don't spend all that much time seeking and buying coins, so I don't make the time to follow auction houses, browse upcoming sales, etc. I prefer just going to a store, seeing what they offer, and buying something instantaneously. For this, both VCoins and MA-Shops function just fine. I don't really favor one site over the other, but I have noticed, more and more over time and with fewer exceptions, that both sites seem to have almost identical listings for the categories that I usually peruse. It sounds like this might become even more common going forward. Also, as others have already noted, MA-Shops does seem to charge higher prices in general. As for buying overseas, I did get slapped with a large import duty (large relative to the price of the coin, at least) for a recent MA-Shops purchase. This had never happened to me before, so when I purchased another overseas coin recently, my anxiety at receiving that "import duty payment required" email erupted. Thankfully, one never arrived and the coin appeared in my mailbox as normal. Some people here said that my import duty experience may have just added up to bad luck. I hope so. That additional duty arguably made that coin an overpriced purchase. I would definitely not want to repeat that with every purchase. I would just stop buying coins if that became routine. I never want to like something so much that I pay ridiculous prices for it. Unchecked desires can often lead to foolish behavior. Those situations rarely, if ever, end well.

Here is my Julian II "Bull" coin. Julian II (360 - 363) AE1 (BI Maiorina); Thessalonika Mint; Obv: DN FL CL IVLIANUS PF AUG; Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right; Rev: SECVRITAS REIPVB; Bull standing right, two stars above;*TESΓ in exergue; Ref: RIC 226

Decent portraits of Maurice Tiberius seem very difficult to find. After looking at numerous examples over the past year or so, this decanummium from Antioch qualifies as one of the best I've yet seen. And it's far from perfect. The details on the eagle scepter stand out, as do the Emperor's fingers around the mappa. The largely intact legend makes almost no sense, but, according to Sear for this type, it usually appeared as a badly blundered variation of the legend on Tiberius II's coins. The dealer had listed it as Year III, but I think it's actually year 8 (UIII). With these lower denomination coins (10 nummi or 1/4 of a follis), I often wonder what people at the time could purchase with them. Bread? Some soup? Meat? Beans? Would this small coin, slightly smaller than a US dime, represent a meal for someone in 6th century Byzantine Antioch? Or just a morsel? This one doesn't look like it made it around the market too much, but I bet it could have bought something at least halfway decent. But then Phocas had to come along and uproot everything in 602. Things didn't end well for the fleeing Maurice and his sons. So history goes. Usurpers, usurpers everywhere. Maurice Tiberius. 582-602. Æ Decanummium 17mm, 3.1g Theoupolis (Antioch) mint. Dated RY 8 (AD 589/90); Obv: blundered legend, Crowned facing bust, wearing consular robe, holding mappa and eagle-tipped scepter; Rev: Large X; cross above, R below; A/N/N/O U/III (date) across field; Sear 536 Please post any Maruice Tiberus coins you have!

This is my latest and final Byzantine for this thread. I started collecting this series last summer, so I have only accumulated 14 coins at present. A 15th one is en route, but it depicts a much earlier Emperor. I have enjoyed seeing all of the fantastic Byzantine coins in this thread, along with the knowledge that others have Byzantine coin disease! 😁 I am not alone. Manuel I Comnenus (1143-1183), Æ Tetarteron; Thessalonica; Obv: ⨀/Γ/Є to left and P-over-w/Γ/O/S to right, half-length bust of St. George facing, holding spear and shield ; Rev: MANɣHΛ ΔЄCΠΟΤ, bust of Manuel facing, holding labarum and globus cruciger; 20 mm,3.24g; DOC 18; Sear 1975

The Emperor theme from Star Wars and a coin of an Emperor (who may have wanted this for his theme song?) Leo VI (AD 886-912); Constantinople; Æ Follis; Obv: +LEOn bAS - ILEVS ROM* Leo enthroned facing, wearing crown and loros, and holding labarum and akakia; Rev: Inscription in four lines: +LEOn / Eh ΘEO bA / SILEVS R / OmEOh; 6.90g, 28.00 mm; Sear 1728

I just ordered another ancient online, so until that one arrives, this enthroned Leo VI (doesn't he just look so dang regal?) qualifies as my latest ancient. Leo VI (AD 886-912); Constantinople; Æ Follis; Obv: +LEOn bAS - ILEVS ROM* Leo enthroned facing, wearing crown and loros, and holding labarum and akakia; Rev: Inscription in four lines: +LEOn / Eh ΘEO bA / SILEVS R / OmEOh; 6.90g, 28.00 mm; Sear 1728

Thank you everyone for taking this thread into areas that I never thought it would go. First, I'll post my own Leo VI Sear 1729. This remains one of the more common Byzantine coins (Sear claims it's probably the most common one), so seekers can find decent examples at pretty decent prices. It's probably a great Byzantine starter coin. Leo VI (AD 886-912); Constantinople; Æ Follis; Obv: +LEOn bAS - ILEVS ROM' Bust facing wearing crown and chlamys, holding akakia in l. hand; Rev: Inscription in four lines: +LEOn / Eh ΘEO bA / SILEVS R / OmEOh; 7.67g.; Berk 918, Sear 1729 The 9th century mosaic of the throne from Hagia Sofia is a brilliant addition, @Troyden. Even at a glance, similarities definitely exist with the Leo VI coin's throne. The asymmetry of the throne's two sides on the coin is interesting. Most of it results from his arm placement, of course, but why not make them the same height? Does the labarum have some extra hanging parts? I don't know. Also, the design pattern of the throne itself seems to match Leo's loros, as if Leo VI would just blend right in with the throne itself. Both are likely bejeweled and it was probably easier to just continue the same design. As for other possible comparisons, there is also the throne on the mosaic below in Sant'Apollinare Nuovo, Ravenna of Christ Pantokrators from the 6th century that also somewhat resembles the one on the Leo VI coin and on the Hagia Sofia mosaic. I've seen numerous versions of Byzantine Emperors' thrones, even ones that resemble small stools with no backing. The style discussed here definitely makes more of an impression. As for coin overpaying, I understand what everyone said above, but I like to watch my spending, otherwise unpleasant financial surprises can occur. I'm not really all that picky after all, because I just ordered another coin the other day. Not only that, it's coming from Germany again. We'll see if customs slaps another import fee on me or not. I really like ancient coins like everyone else here, but not enough to pay too much for them. Yet I'm sure I've overpaid for a few without caring. I just don't want to do that too often.

Leo VI, "The Wise" or "The Philosopher" (due to his scholarly work, which some claim distracted him from ruling the empire), sits on an ornate and even somewhat strangely designed throne. The details on this specimen could look sharper and stronger in places, but most of the features appear fairly clearly, down to his tiny wire feet. This might rank as the roundest and most overall well-centered Byzantine coin that I've yet acquired. The patina looks slightly more malachite green in hand than in the photo. Sadly, this is the coin that I started the import duty thread on earlier, so I paid an extra and unexpected $50.00 for it after submitting the order. The base price wasn't too bad, but the duty turned it into what feels like an overpay. C'est la vie. I still like it, but I will probably forever feel a lingering tinge of extortion when looking at this coin in the future. 😄 Leo VI (AD 886-912); Constantinople; Æ Follis; Obv: +LEOn bAS - ILEVS ROM'* Leo enthroned facing, wearing crown and loros, and holding labarum and akakia; Rev: Inscription in four lines: +LEOn / Eh ΘEO bA / SILEVS R / OmEOh; 6.90g, 28.00 mm; Sear 1728