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Donna, just curious about what underlies the distinction, in your mind, between the "July" / "Divine Julius" example, which you say doesn't bother you, and the BC/AD situation. To me these appear to be largely equivalent, and I personally don't attach any religious meaning to either one. To me, they are just terms with interesting historical roots (Which so happen to be religious in nature). Two possibilities that occur to me are: 1) The usage of "Our" implicit in the Latin Anno Domini, as opposed to "July" which just alludes to the name Julius 2) The fact that Christianity is still very much an active religion today, which may make any association feel closer to home or more "real" (I don't think anyone has been a devout worshipper of the Divine Julius for some time now... so you're unlikely to be mistaken for one!) Maybe a little bit of both? Just curious. As I said, to me, these factors don't amount to any material difference; I consider both terms historical in nature rather than religious and don't mind them. But I am also Catholic, so understand my perspective may be clouded, having never experienced the "excluded perspective" so to speak as it relates to BC/AD

@kirispupis it sounds like your approach to this issue is totally rational and level-headed - respect for that! That said, I prefer BC/AD because they have been in use forever and are more widely understood. I guess 2 additional points I'd offer: As you noted, BC/AD and BCE/CE refer to the exact same delineating point in time, so I don't see any real difference I think few people actually know what the BC/AD acronyms stand for - and even those who do rarely think about the underlying words. I mean BC is english and AD is Latin, it doesn't really make a lot of sense So ultimately, BCE/CE are just "nicer" words to refer to the same thing, and no one knows the words anyway because they're hidden beneath an acronym. So I just err on the side of what I view as the easier and more functional solution: BC/AD

Spot on @DonnaML. Not to detract from OP's discussion of the Regulus type, but I just have to share my favorite example of this practice: This Titus aureus copied what is perhaps my favorite roman republican denarius, a coin that was about 190-200 years old at the time. I believe this reverse design was repeated by other rulers as well. Titus (as Caesar) Aureus, 77-78 AD: Anonymous Republican denarius, RRC 287/1, 115-114 BC

Very interesting. I am not an expert in this area of history/numismatics, but it seems to me 70 years isn't really that long for a coin to still be in use? I know in the modern US it's not unheard of by any means to see a coin minted in the 50s or 60s still in circulation. And I believe there is evidence of ancient Roman coins remaining in use many decades or even centuries after they were minted. It doesn't seem that surprising to me that some of the voyagers in the late 15th century could have brought this with them.

Good article and interesting thread. One piece of advice that I heard a lot when I first started was "buy the best coin you can afford." I am not too fond of this advice for a few reasons: One, it ignores the nuance described in @Valentinian's article - i.e. the tradeoff between quality and cost is different for every time period, collecting niche, and even between specific issues. I don't always want the "best" if mid-grade coins are readily available and much cheaper. Other times I do. As many have said here, the individual collector's definition of "best" is often different from the consensus view of "best condition". I have a Marcus Aurelius denarius that is not by conventional standards a high-grade coin... I got it for $60. But it has a very attractive portait, perfectly centered, high relief, complete, clear legends and beautiful toning. It's just worn in places so doesn't grade as "best", but I like it better than most every $150 MA denarius I see. It just looks cool and has that eye appeal. How do you define what you can afford? I think many ancient coin collectors are 25-30+ years old and either in prime earning years or already have significant savings. The theoretical limit of what one can "afford" is a lot different than what one is really comfortable spending on coins. Thus, the definition becomes kind of circular: if I set a huge budget, I can afford everything in XF; if I set a more moderate budget, I can't "afford" it. But the budget I set depends on my own value judgement about the importance of condition and what quality of coins are available within the budget I determine. Ultimately there is a sort of spirit inherent in "buy the best you can afford" I agree with, which is more like: "Don't be penny wise and pound foolish by buying coins that you'll eventually be unhappy with just to save a few bucks now. Better to think hard about the cost/quality tradeoff for the specific type you're looking at, figure out what the sweet spot is for you, and then buy a coin in that sweet spot when you get a good opportunity."

Well, I spoke too soon! After striking out at the Fall auction yesterday, I was able to win a coin I'm very excited about at a reasonable price this morning in the eLive auction! This is RR type I've wanted for a long time, but the wings on the helmet and other features tend to wear down unusually quickly, and there are many with goofy flan shapes and other flaws ("Roma" sometimes cut off from the obverse") - so the coins tend to either be poorer or extremely expensive. This one has some roughness to its surfaces and some wear on the right side of the reverse - but very strong detail otherwise and complete features! I got it for 170 EUR which is not exactly a steal, but I was very happy with it for this type.

I had a similar experience with them, got a really good deal on a RR denarius, I paid the invoice and heard nothing. Emailed a couple times and no response. 12 days later they shipped the coin, but the tracking number didn't work. More emails, still no responses. About 20 days later the package just showed up. May be similar for you but it doesn't bode well that they were removed from Vcoins so I'd just pursue a refund via Vcoins and/or Paypal. bummer.

I bid on several RR Denarii and got absolutely boomed Some of the hammer prices were literally double my estimate, and a couple of those I bid aggressively for and really wanted. Seems like a lot of the VF/EF borderline coins went for an outrageous premium to market value. Interestingly, a couple of the more expensive coins I tossed in bids for (a RR Quadrigatus and a beautiful Octavian denarius) went for more reasonable prices. Very expensive coins and I didn't win because I was bidding conservatively just in case I could snag a good deal, but much closer to market values in my opinion

+1 on this - if you are confident the allegations are true, I say let them fly. Otherwise auction houses will continue to take advantage of bidders... all of the bidding mechanics happen behind closed doors for online auctions, so we as consumers place a lot of trust in the auction houses. Most are fine, I think, but you never really know.

I've also been having terrible luck at auction recently Starting to wonder if I'm just a cheap bastard, but even the coins I am pretty determined to get, I can't seem to win unless I bid 20%+ over what I think the true value is. And who knows if other bidders would continue to top me even if I did go for it

Inflation decreases the value of currency, but the BP is indexed to a real asset - a coin. Obviously there's never a perfect correlation, but generally the prices physical assets like a coin, precious metals, real estate, and all goods over the long run will increase with inflation. That's a big part of the reason why a coke cost $0.05 in 1920 and it costs $2.00 now. So if the price of the coin increases due to inflation, the dollar amount goes up while the value of the money remains about the same in terms of actual purchasing power. The BP is directly proportional to the price of the coin, so the auction house's fees should increase in lock-step with inflation, just as their costs will over time increase. All that is to say: if there's inflation, the auction houses should be unaffected on a net basis. BP's go up while costs go up.

wow - very generous! I sent you a PM, thanks Richard How's that for building customer loyalty??

Inflation has hit Europe and the Euro (including the UK and GBP) much harder than the US, actually, if you can believe it. What makes no sense is specifically citing inflation as a reason for increasing the BP like CNG did. Inflation affects prices for coins and BP is directly proportional, so if inflation boosts coin prices by 10%, your BP also goes up 10%. So it's sort of a nonsense excuse. If you feel you need to raise your BP for competitive reasons then it's better to just say so 😉 at least roma was straight forward about the change... really rubbed me wrong how CNG tried to blame inflation when anyone with even basic economic knowledge can see through that

Didn't get anything at Roma unfortunately. I had my eye on roman republican silver and the ones I liked got pretty pricey (some very much so) unfortunately 😞 Been struggling to find something to buy myself for my birthday - seems a bit dry out there right now. I guess I'll just save up for Artemide in september, but kind of a bummer.

Yeah that’s a hell of an example Phil. Maybe the best I’ve seen. i was just reading on Andrew McCabe’s site about this alternate arrangement of the horses with the lead horse on the right/foreground, and how that might represent a different stage of the triumph. I think that theory may have been attributed to you, actually, Phil

Thanks Phil this is great info to have. sort of a newbie question, but does the lack of significant toning on this coin hint that it might be a newer find?

Haha I wish!! I just took the pic in really warm lighting which resulted in a really nice pic as far as accurately showing the detail and surfaces of the coin, but did make it look gold… it’s a bright lustrous silver in hand. Here are the seller’s pics which are too zoomed and have too much direct light, but do show the color better:

Hello Everyone - Today I received something very special in the mail. This coin came from Artemide 59e - this is my first ever auction win, my first ever Roman Republican coin, and my best/most expensive coin thus far. Needless to say, I am really happy with the purchase. So: first I selfishly just wanted to show the coin off because I'm so excited about it 😁 L. Manlius Torquatus, AR Denarius 82 BC Obv: L. MANLI PRO. Q.; helmeted head of Roma right Rev: L. SVLLA I[M or MP]; Sulla in quadriga right, being crowned by angel-form-Victory flying above 3.83g 16.50mm Crawford 367//5; B 4 or 5 Second, I wanted to ask "Where do I start if I want to try to dig up provenance on this coin?". I know people dig through old auction catalogues and try to match photos, but where do you even begin? Is it possible to do this using online resources like ACsearch and CoinArchives.com, or do you need access to physical auction catalogues? Finding old provenance on any of my coins is a really exciting prospect, and as I begin to acquire more higher end pieces such as this one, I think there's a better shot of digging up such records. Thanks!

This is my latest purchase and a very special one for me: my first ever auction win, my first republican coin, and my best + most expensive coin thus far: My pictures aren't great so I included the seller's pics as well. Super happy with this coin - easily the crown jewel of my collection so far - and I got a great deal on it! L Manlius Torquatus AR Denarius 82 BC Obv: L. MANLI PRO. Q.; helmeted head of Roma right Rev: L. SVLLA I[M or MP]; Sulla in quadriga right, being crowned by angel-form-Victory flying above 3.83g 16.50mm Crawford 367//5; B 4 or 5

I get that they want to deter people from stumbling across an important archaeological site, monkeying around, and breaking something invaluable. but this doesn’t seem like the right solution at all. The vast majority of these finds are just metal detectorists turning up coins and small artifacts. While these harsh 0 tolerance laws theoretically deter anyone from searching in the first place, it also incentivizes breaking the law if you know you cannot keep and will not be compensated for the item. Feels awfully unfair in 95% of cases. Im not sure what the right balance is, but probably the UK law is the best we’ve got in the world today. It certainly is the fairest and most effective policy for the vast majority of these small scale finds, and surely some modification could be made to prevent people from getting into big sites or attempting to excavate larger/more unusual items.

I'm also pretty new and what helped me a lot was to just read up on Roman history. I knew some, but only broad strokes I listened to the Great Courses lectures on the Roman Emperors by Garrett Fagan and read a few books. It really got me excited about certain emperors/certain periods of history ... made me appreciate my existing coins more and helped me develop a sense of what to get next

I sense the sarcasm... but that's what makes him one of my favorites. He was a statesman, a gentleman, a man of moderation. A "first citizen"-style emperor that hardcore republicans like Cicero maybe could have accepted, even ... and who might have even fit in as a prime minister or president in 2022. Plus he didn't die by murder or suicide! that puts him in rare company among his emperor peers... haha

damn 😞 I don't know anything about US coins but the rest of these folks sound pretty confident. Sorry about the bad news!

It still shocks, amazes, and excites me that one can buy this type of stuff (although it'll be a few years before I can drop 88,200GBP on an ancient artifact). I remember I had the same feeling when I discovered ancient coin collecting not too long ago.

An elegant compromise! This is probably sort of similar to what I'm leaning towards doing: Linder trays for my best/favorite coins, all my silver and more expensive pieces, etc. - and then a nice case to store my less remarkable coins (almost all late roman bronze... I still enjoy buying uncleaned or cheap lots from time to time and attributing the coins) filed away in 2x2s with detailed inserts (I also use guardhouse flips). Thanks to everyone else for posting their set ups as well. I got the advice I needed but this has turned into a nice little showcase thread as well! Always cool to see how people display their coins and get to see some collections. Always amazed how many coins some of you guys have 😄