sand

@Kaleun96 Nice cabinet. You have a nice collection of large silver pieces. Are the round green fabric inserts made of coarse wool?

2 hours ago, JeandAcre said:

@sand, I'm appreciating the nuance of what you're saying.  Except that, from here, it kind of goes like this.  

I'm Realllly old school where this stuff is concerned (along the lines of, one day, you wake up and find this out, Rip Van Winkle style), and have very literally never done slabs or certificates of authenticity.  If you'll kindly pardon the metaphor, they both just smell that bad.  

Regarding NGC in particular, other people, orders of magnitude more knowledgable about them than I am, have already posted in this forum.  You might try doing a website search.  But they've called NGC out on their communal level of expertise, where attribution is concerned, above and beyond the esthetics (and, for some of us, abject lack thereof) of slabbing.

Much more anecdotally --going back to the 2000s, when even US ebay harbored dealers who were of a certain level of erudition about what they were selling-- one seller put it this way.  When some of her clientele asked her for a certificate of authenticity, she wanted to respond with '...Fine.  What would you want it to say?' 

You're owed the caveat that this was in the context of medieval coins, before people in eastern Europe were routinely listing laugh-till-it-comes-out-your-nose fakes on ...wait for it...ebay.  But in that, far more gracious age, her implicit point was valid, and no less relevant to this day.  If you can't spot a fake on your own watch, maybe you should just stay in the stock market, and watch more television.  ...And when you can't, as I haven't, an easy couple of times, you should just do all you can to get a summary refund.

...No, I Promise you, that's Not to cast aspersions on where you are, as a collector.  More that occasionally, on a broader scale, I get a little carried away with my own rhetoric.  And it's pretty obvious that the recent spike in prices across the market is doing nothing good for its communal integrity.  And that outfits like NGC are no substitute for a practiced eye.

@JeandAcre Thanks for your observations, regarding NGC slabs, especially for medieval coins.

I really don't know much, about how good NGC is, at authenticating medieval coins.

I'm much more familiar, with how good NGC is, at authenticating ancient coins. From all of the posts that I've read on CoinTalk, NGC is very good at authenticating ancient coins. From what I've read, David Vagi and Barry Murphy, the 2 NGC Ancients guys, are very good at authenticating ancient coins. Barry Murphy started working at NGC Ancients in July 2016. David Vagi was at NGC Ancients before that.

Out of all of the 150 or so ancient and medieval coins that I've purchased (19 ancient Greek, 40 ancient Roman, 40 Byzantine, 13 ancient Africa and the Middle East, 15 ancient Chinese, 17 medieval Chinese, 4 medieval Vietnamese, and 6 medieval Europe, more or less), I can only recall 3 that were in NGC slabs. 2 were ancient Greek, and 1 was medieval Europe. Therefore, I haven't been a huge buyer of NGC slabbed coins. And, I've never paid to slab a coin. Therefore, I'm not really much of a "slab person".

I also purchased 2 Chinese coins, which had been slabbed by Chinese slab companies. And 1 PCGS slabbed US trade dollar. 

I have removed all of the coins, which I purchased in slabs, except for 1.

Of the 3 NGC slabbed coins that I have purchased, 2 were from Ebay, back when I was more of a newbie than I am now. 1 was an ancient Greek, and the other was a medieval Europe. Nowadays, I don't shop much on Ebay anymore, for various reasons.

The 3rd NGC slabbed coin, was of an ancient Greek coin type, that, it seems to me, is very difficult for anyone to authenticate. It was an Ionia electrum coin, with a plain obverse (perfectly smooth, with no design), and an incuse punch on the reverse, from the 7th century BC. I didn't know enough about the seller's knowledge, to know, if the seller was knowledgeable enough about that coin type, to do a good job of authenticating the coin. It seems to me, that very few sellers, would be expert enough, in that coin type, to authenticate such a coin. However, I could be incorrect, about that. The coin was in an NGC slab, and the price was relatively low for that coin type, so I bid on it, and I won it. The NGC slab was a factor, in my decision, to bid on the coin.

I guess my "eye" has become more practiced, over the 4 years that I've been collecting ancient coins and medieval coins. Especially for ancient coins. But, during those 4 years, I've relied somewhat, on buying from reputable dealers. I started with Ebay, but eventually I moved on, to other places.

To me, an NGC Ancients slab, is similar to buying an ancient coin from a reputable dealer, who is knowledgeable enough about ancient coins, to sell almost no fake coins. But only for ancient coins. I don't know, how good NGC is, at authenticating medieval coins.

I agree, that knowledge is important. Even if a seller is what I consider to be reputable and knowledgeable, I still look very carefully at the seller photos of a coin, and I use my knowledge, to try to see any signs, that the coin may be fake. My knowledge has improved over the past 4 years, especially in certain areas. But, I'm still not an expert.

58 minutes ago, JeandAcre said:

@sand, I have to Really like it that, even if your (conspicuously Very Last) criterion is an NGC slab, you rely on that for authentication, rather than for the esthetics.

...Not sure you need my opinion of anyone's slabs, in either capacity.  I've never had occasion to buy anything in one.

Thanks @JeandAcre

I wish, that NGC offered a choice of an NGC certificate of authenticity (COA) for ancient coins, instead of a slab. It seems that, on the NGC web site, NGC only offers a COA, if the coin cannot be slabbed for some reason (too large, too small, too fragile, etc). An NGC COA, with an ID number, and high resolution photos of the coin, on the NGC web site, which one could lookup by the ID number on the COA. That way, I wouldn't have to go through the trouble, of breaking the coin out of the slab. I know that Sear sells COAs of ancient coins. Maybe NGC would offer a COA, if someone called them, and requested a COA. I don't know. I think, such a COA would work, for an ancient coin, because every ancient coin looks different, because of variations in the flan shape, style, strike, and wear. Such a COA would work, in the same way, that provenance works.

For me, here are the most important factors, in order of priority, with the highest priority first.

1. Price. I have a maximum price, that I am willing to spend, on a single coin. Also, this year, for the 1st time, I've been keeping track, of how much I spend per month, on coins and coin books. I'm trying not to exceed a certain amount per month. That maximum amount per month, is equal to the maximum amount, that I'm willing to spend, on a single coin. In March, I really blew out my budget, more than double. But in the other months this year, I've done pretty well.

2. Age. I really like old coins. The older the better.

3. Spiritual significance. Coins that show beliefs about the After Life, and the Spirit World.

4. Historical significance. Coins that show, what the people were like, and how they lived, and what they did, in that time and place.

5. Eye appeal.

6. Nice looking portrait.

7. Tone and patina. I like toned silver coins, and bronze coins with a patina. However, I also like shiny silver coins. However, I don't usually buy shiny bronze coins that have been stripped of their original patina, unless the coin is exceptional. Cabinet patina (patina that naturally happened, after a coin was stripped of its original patina) is fine with me. I try not to buy coins, that have a fake tone, or a fake patina.

8. Reputation of the seller. Does the seller have a good reputation, for selling authentic coins? Does the seller have the knowledge, to ensure, that almost all of the seller's coins, are authentic?

9. Provenance. Is there documentation on a web site, that the coin was sold in the past, by a reputable seller?

10. NGC slab. If an ancient coin or medieval coin is in an NGC slab, then that is helpful, to verify authenticity, because the NGC people seem to be good at authenticating ancient coins (and medieval coins?). However, I almost always remove the coin from the slab, after I take photos of the coin in the slab.

Myself, I don't know, if more men collect ancient coins, than women. Perhaps, more women collect ancient coins, than men. It seems to me, that it is impossible, to know, with 100% certainty.

17 hours ago, Egry said:

At first all I saw was a Yin Yang, what are they talking about. Then I looked closer, it is not a Yin Yang. It now looks like a straight on of an Orca to me. Are you a psychologist by trade?

Hello @Egry

I'm not a professional psychologist. However, I am interested in psychology, and other things. Are you a psychologist?

38 minutes ago, NathanB said:

@sand, this thread will be woefully lacking without a bit from you! You have perhaps my favourite avatar ever.

Thanks @NathanB

I remember, your nice words, about my avatar, on the other coin forum.

You're the only person, who has ever mentioned, my avatar.

I drew my avatar.

I've never explained my avatar.

I like, to let people, view my avatar, and see, what they may see.

14 minutes ago, Egry said:

Italian website 

I've ordered all of my Abafil cases and trays, from the US reseller. So far, I've never had any major problems. I live in the US.

2 hours ago, Egry said:

I tried to get the Abafil trays initially. I went on their website and when I went to check out it told me to wait until some gets back to me on shipping costs. A few days later they emailed me the shipping costs, I agreed but their website still wouldn’t let me proceed. I probably emailed them 10 times with no response, so I just gave up. Then I found these lighthouse cases.

For the Abafil, were you trying to order from the US reseller https://www.coin.com/cases/ or from the Italian web site https://www.abafil.com/en/ ?

Yep, I have a backlog as well. My backlog is photos of individual coins. It takes me so long, to take photos of a coin. I use a digital camera, which has auto-focus, and also seems to automatically adjust brightness and colors. So, getting the focus, brightness, and colors looking decent, as well as getting all of the debris off of the coins and tray, takes a lot of time. Especially the debris. Especially on my small, dark, bronze coins, which show every speck of debris, when I zoom in. And the debris is so small, that I usually don't notice the debris, until I look at the photos. And, in the process of removing debris, more debris gets on the coin. Aaaugh!

I've finally decided, that I'm going to take photos of up to 1 coin per week, or 1 group of coins per week. I have approximately 200 coins (ancient, medieval, Celtic, Spanish colonial, English, and US) plus my Lincoln cent collection. Approximately 150 of my coins are worthy of photos. I've taken decent individual photos of approximately 30 of them. So, I've got a long way to go. At a rate of 1 coin per week, even if I don't buy any more coins, it will take me 2 years, to take individual photos of all of my photo worthy coins. But, of course, I'll probably buy more coins. I bought 4 photo worthy coins in May. But, I have been trying to buy fewer coins, lately.

Lately, I've been getting better at taking photos of coins, especially small dark coins. So it's a little more fun, now.  It's fun to take photos of coins, as long as I don't try to do too much in 1 week.

For me, Wikipedia is very helpful, for coins, ancient topics, and almost everything else in this universe. Often, I'll start typing something in the "Search Wikipedia" text box, and I'll be prompted with a list of helpful, relevant items.

List of Roman emperors and Byzantine emperors : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors 

Roman provincial coins : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_provincial_currency 

Byzantine coins : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_coinage 

Tetradrachm : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetradrachm 

Also, Youtube has some interesting videos, with people showing their ancient coins.

50 minutes ago, Steve said:

Did you sell it?

 

Yah ... sadly, I sold over 500 of my ancient coins a few years ago after being diagnosed with cancer and thinking that I was cashing-out on life (I didn't want my wife to be stuck having to get our money-back trying to sell the purdy lil' things)

I miss all of my coins, but I don't regret collecting them ... I joined this cool new forvm because I miss talking ancient coins with my ol' CCF and CT coin buddies 

Hopefully that's not against the coin rules? (geesh, I've already been booted-out of the other two coin forums ... sigh ... I'm  misunderstood)

P.S. : I just re-read your post, and I noticed, that you sold "over 500 of" your ancient coins. Did you keep some of your ancient coins? How many did you keep? Do you have other categories of coins (medieval, world, US)?

36 minutes ago, Steve said:

Did you sell it?

 

Yah ... sadly, I sold over 500 of my ancient coins a few years ago after being diagnosed with cancer and thinking that I was cashing-out on life (I didn't want my wife to be stuck having to get our money-back trying to sell the purdy lil' things)

I miss all of my coins, but I don't regret collecting them ... I joined this cool new forvm because I miss talking ancient coins with my ol' CCF and CT coin buddies 

Hopefully that's not against the coin rules? (geesh, I've already been booted-out of the other two coin forums ... sigh ... I'm  misunderstood)

Congratulations on still being alive. Are you doing better now?

Well, you can always start again. For me, it seems like, half of the fun of coin collecting, is shopping for coins. However, it can be addicting, so I can understand, if you don't want to get started again.

1 hour ago, Steve said:

this is my favourite ex-coin ... 

Did you sell it?

This is a sad thread, but I like it. It makes me wonder, what happened to these coins. Are the coins lost forever? Perhaps we'll never know. Still, it's nice to see the coins, that otherwise, perhaps no one would ever see.

This Antoninus Pius sestertius (145 AD to 161 AD, 29 mm diameter, 20.57 grams, RIC III 780, Cohen 753) never arrived. This loss still bothers me, sometimes.

This John II tetarteron (1118 AD to 1143 AD, 17 mm diameter) never arrived. I received a sealed, undamaged envelope, with an invoice, but there was no coin in the envelope, as far as I know. There is a remote possibility, that I somehow lost the coin, when I opened the envelope, but that seems very unlikely.

This Chinese Ban Liang (180 BC to 157 BC, 24 mm diameter, 2.41 grams) never arrived. I received the wrong coin instead. This loss bothered me, for a long time. It still bothers me, whenever I look at the seller photos, which is not very often. I'm a little bothered, right now.

This Chinese Tang Dynasty coin (732 AD to 907 AD, 25 mm diameter, 3.64 grams) never arrived. I received the wrong coin instead.

This Elagabalus antoninianus (219 AD to 220 AD, 22 mm diameter, 5.0 grams, RIC IV 129, BMCRE 155, RSC 243) never arrived. I received the wrong coin instead.

On 5/30/2022 at 9:33 AM, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

Wow I was not! I will need to order one!! Thanks for the heads up!!

You're most welcome.

On 5/30/2022 at 9:34 AM, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

@sanddo the deep trays work in the normal cases or you need to order a special one?

All of my deep Abafil trays fit inside my standard "Diplomat 2" cases, and they fit inside my standard "Diplomat 7" cases.

For example, a "Diplomat 2" case can hold 1 deep tray. Or, a "Diplomat 2" case can hold 2 regular depth trays stacked on top of each other.

Do you order your Abafil products directly from the Italian web site Abafil.com? Or do you order from the US supplier at https://www.coin.com/cases/ ? I order from the US supplier, so I'm not as familiar with the Italian terminology for the cases. On the Italian web site, I think the "Diplomat 2" case is called the "Standard Minidiplomat" case, and the "Diplomat 7" case is called the "Standard Diplomat" case, but I'm not certain of that.

It looks like your brown Abafil case with green velvet trays, probably is a "Diplomat 2" case, which Abafil.com calls a "Standard Minidiplomat" case, I think, but I'm not certain of that.

The deep Abafil trays seem to have approximately the same thickness as 2 of the regular depth trays, but I'm not sure if that is exact. 

On Abafil.com, it looks like the deep trays are called "Dip Trays".

I'm not very familiar with how snug the Abafil trays fit in the Diplomat 2 case, in the vertical direction. That is, I don't know, if you would need a piece of fabric laid on top of the trays, to ensure that the coins would stay in their compartments, if you were to carry the case around, holding the case vertically. I've been using the 1 compartment trays mostly, and I'm always careful to carry a case horizontally. Therefore, I don't know what happens, if one carries a case vertically, with a deep 24 compartment tray inside the case, or with 2 regular depth 24 compartment trays inside the case.

By the way, the "Diplomat 7" case, seems to be a misnomer. The "Diplomat 7" case doesn't always seem to be able to hold 7 regular depth trays. At least, my "Diplomat 7" cases don't, not with my regular depth trays. Each of my "Diplomat 7" cases only seems to hold up to 6 regular depth trays. However, that doesn't bother me. Perhaps there is some variation, in the thickness of the regular depth trays. I don't know.

On 5/28/2022 at 2:01 PM, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

Abafil is nice…be warned, scyphate coins may not fit 😟

Hello @TheTrachyEnjoyer

It's nice to see you again. I was rather unhappy, when you were banned from CT. No one seemed to know why. I figured, that it was probably something silly, and that's what it turned out to be, it sounds like.

Are you aware of the Abafil deep trays? They come with 24 compartments, 15 compartments, 6 compartments, and 1 compartment. They are items 132, 133, 134, and 150 on the following web page, and they are lined with red velvet (not felt).

https://www.coin.com/cases/ 

I have a 24 compartment deep tray, a 15 compartment deep tray, and a 6 compartment deep tray. I measured the depth of the 24 compartment deep tray, and it was approximately 14 millimeters deep. That was the height of the vertical dividers. The horizontal dividers are slightly taller.

I'm using the 24 compartment deep tray, to store my "2nd string" thick coins and "2nd string" trachy coins.

I'm storing all of my "1st string" coins, in 1-compartment regular depth (not deep) Abafil trays, with each tray in an Abafil Diplomat 2 case, with only 1 tray per case. But, I have a lot of regular depth 24 compartment trays, in case I ever decide that I prefer the 24 compartment trays.

I use 1 tray for my ancient Greek coins, ancient Africa coins, ancient Middle East coins, and other ancient coins. I use 1 tray for my ancient Roman coins. I use 1 tray for my Byzantine coins. I use 1 tray for my ancient and medieval Chinese and Vietnamese coins. And, I use 1 tray for my Celtic, medieval, English, Spanish colonial, and US coins. Except for my Lincoln cent collection, which is in coin albums. So, at the moment, all of my "1st string" coins, except for my Lincoln cents, fit into 5 Abafil 1 compartment trays.

Here are photos of my 24 compartment deep tray, with my "2nd string" Isaac II bronze trachy coin in it. The Isaac II bronze trachy has a maximum diameter of 27 millimeters (and a weight of 2.89 grams).

And, here is a photo, of my "1st string" Byzantine coins, in a 1 compartment Abafil tray.

And, here is a photo, of my Diplomat 2 cases, and my Diplomat 7 cases. I keep all of my extra Abafil trays, in the Diplomat 7 cases.

And, here are photos of my "black cabinet", which is a Lighthouse case, with a single non-removable tray, of black felt and 12 large compartments. I probably have more than 1 fake, especially among my "2nd string" coins. But, I'm 99% sure that the Justinian I follis is a fake, and that's the only coin, that I'm so sure is a fake. The fake Justinian I follis has a maximum diameter of 45 mm (and a weight of 17.67 grams), so you can see how large the compartments are.