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I looked and looked, honest . . . Need help with monogram


thenickelguy
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I had no idea there were so many different monograms on this type coin.

Here's the monogram image at the end or the Greek SARDES LYDIA Apollo / Club coin I just bought.

The handle of the club is far north. This appears on the business end. Could anyone read it?

I am pretty sure it is right side up to read. Thanks in advance. Even if I don't get an answer.

I think I might see Delta Rho Psi Δ Ρ Ψ

Who knows? My eyes are buggin out.

221758177_SARDESLYDIAAE15ApolloandClubmono.jpg.0b62c291f5adcd088160410fc29c1e26.jpg

 

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I'll take a whack at it, even though I'm not an expert in Greek letters or monograms, and I'm not familiar with the Sardes Lydia Apollo club coin type. Hopefully, someone who is more expert, will provide a better answer later.

To me, the monogram on your coin, looks like the Greek letter alpha (A), in Byzantine coins. It also looks like the bottom part, of the monogram of Byzantine Justinian II coins. Interestingly, the "A" on the bottom of the Justinian II monogram, often has a line hanging down, below the center of the "A", similar to your coin.

image.jpeg.f0f1f3d8ba3dba56ddcde0c72f53f6c0.jpeg

Here are some Byzantine examples.

These are not my coins.

In this 1st example, on the reverse, note the Greek letter alpha (A), underneath the large letter "M". This means, that the coin was minted, at officina A.

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.db7fb1d43baed307414f04677c875500.jpeg

image.jpeg.7c609ba6655a0d137df921bc7e92eaaa.jpeg

In this 2nd example, on the reverse, note the Greek letter alpha (A), which is the bottom part of the monogram, above the large letter "M". The "A" is the bottom part of the monogram of Justinian II. Note the line, which is hanging below the center of the "A".

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.6376b19e8aa2d73334253f1d5b1c676f.jpeg

image.jpeg.81de66d2932ef30d8b162d1d6cc184d6.jpeg

Here are more examples. On the reverse, note the Greek letter alpha (A), which is the bottom part of the monogram, above the large letter "M". The "A" is the bottom part of the monogram of Justinian II. Note the line, which is hanging below the center of the "A".

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.568a9a8009bda695ee536137cbec6844.jpeg

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.2c05cd4b0d5464618e39af1e95218429.jpeg

 

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.668cc34af525eca2ff25259054f45bea.jpeg

This is not my coin.

image.jpeg.c66ce725050ed8e25eecf6e99ebd3090.jpeg

 

Edited by sand
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These Sardes club-types are very appealing, I think.  From time to time I get one and then spend a lot of time trying to find a match for the monogram - very difficult much of the time.   Here is a typical failure-to-attribute for one of mine:

580703993_Sardes-ApolloClubCAIANNlotMar2021(0).jpg.4af437fddb0774cf06f4a7c94b5cdae9.jpg

Lydia, Sardes  Æ 15 Civic Issue (c. 133 - 1 B.C.) Laureate head of Apollo right. / CAΡΔIANωN, club, unknown monogram above, all within oak wreath. cf. GRPC Lydia 17 (see note). (3.90 grams / 14 x 13 mm) eBay Mar. 2021  Attribution Notes: This has the CAΡΔIANΩN legend, which was not typically used for this issue.  I could not find a match for this monogram. GRPC Lydia 17 taken from Wildwinds example (IVO monogram). 

As for yours, this looks kind of close?  I found it doing an acsearch of auctions: 

1811747145_SardesLydia-clubmonogram.jpg.410ebb3a2f832c5b74338238b639ead3.jpg

 

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9035229

 

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Thank you very much for your kind efforts at helping me out with the monogram. I know it took a lot of time on your part to post that informative information.

_________________

Awesome !!!

sand and Marsyas Mike

_________________

Alpha Upsilon or A Y looks very close. Maybe a little die chip or other issue on the left there below the crossbar of A and left arm of Y.

On Wildwinds I found a line up top

 about reading monograms.

There the author states that he has documented and illustrated 
94 different monograms on the Apollo/club type.

I looked at many and didn't find mine or Marsyas Mike's example. (Which could be the same)

If I figure out how to contact Wildwinds, I might send pictures with question.

I don't think we are going to do better than this.

 

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34 minutes ago, thenickelguy said:

monogram.jpg.bd691b739a52294cf867d64801bad81a.jpgOK 

I found this page https://sardisexpedition.org/en/images?q=monogram

I looked at many monograms

I think it is possible I have this. Sorry, in my lousy image to start this off I cropped the small circle atop the monogram. I think it's there.

I don't know what the illustration says but I might have it right with this?

Nice job researching that!  The list of monograms you linked had escaped my own research efforts, so thank you!  And yep, I think the monogram illustrated matches your coin.  Not that I'm an expert...

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@thenickelguy You may be correct. However, I wonder, if the round thing at the top of the monogram, that you think may be an "O", may be the round end of the club, or maybe a spike on the end of the club. Perhaps there is a light spot, on the center of the rounded club end or spike, which makes the rounded club end or spike look like an "O". It's just a theory, of another possibility. You have the coin in hand. Therefore, you can see the coin better, than I can.

Here are 2 examples, from ACsearch, of an alpha (A) monogram, including a larger photo of the coin that @Marsyas Mike found.

image.png.251831c506be943fff43e267115d955c.png

image.png.cd89f8dd7a12b902931823d79a06773a.png

Here's a zoomed in view, of your coin.

image.png.67a32f376105e47c4742d68a32da42c0.png

 

Edited by sand
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Posted (edited)

I don't have the coin in hand yet.

You can bet I'll take better images of this and follow up. I do have a cheap microscope and it takes cheap images. LOL

We may be beating a dead horse at this point. I will follow up. Thank you all so much.

I think there are probably many questionable monograms on this type so I am not really betting on identification. I sure learned a lot about monograms though.

Edited by thenickelguy
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30 minutes ago, thenickelguy said:

Coin arrived today.

Took this image with microscope.

Really no better than original as far as determining what the monogram is any better.

@thenickelguy Can you move your microscope lens closer, to get higher resolution photos, of just the end of the club, and the monogram?

Edited by sand
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I did work on this for well over an hour . . .

Microscope only 1/2 inch give or take from subject. high resolution. It is not a flat surface on the coin. Tried all kind of lighting angles.

I won't be able to do any better than this so we'll just have to wait on somebody someday finding this post and giving a definitive answer to what it is. I thank you and everyone else who took the time to read and/or post.

Two best images I could take and the what I can dream up as letters I see.

closestb.jpg.75bbd9000d5ab59a82a676db854ab0d2.jpg

closest2b.jpg.6b47fa6822f77b46f2fc5fe6c967faa0.jpg

closestb2c.jpg.452a9c8742cd9d5b781658d6bf2a508b.jpg

closestb2.jpg.99cc18cac715d790e6e8616a3aa4b233.jpg

closestbd.jpg.5b955d6290a2fc59c0c55fe477fa3233.jpg

closest2be.jpg.a00688d89ea1bd8d991dd7458aa8a2c1.jpg

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