Severus Posted April 11 · Member Share Posted April 11 AE of Augustus or Tiberius (11,83 g - 24 - 27,5 mm) Obv: laureate (?) head right CM1: PR within square incuse (9 x 5.5 mm) CM2: bare head of Heracles to left (6 mm) Minted: 1. Century AD in Moesia/Thracia based on the attribution of CM1 according to Martini CM1: #87 in Martini, R., „The Pangerl Collection“, 2003; CM2: not in Martini, not in RPC online. That is how far I came. My knowledge of countermarks is rather limited and any inspiration on where else to look is highly appreciated. acsearch did not turn up any results. Thanks in advance. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted April 11 · Member Share Posted April 11 Very interesting countermarks @Severus. The PR has been connected to the rebellion of Vindex against Nero. See the Baker Collection here: http://www.romancoins.info/countermark-Richard-Baker.html and http://www.accla.org/actaaccla/baker2.html A bunch of these PR countermarks showed up on CNG a couple years ago and some of these drifted down to eBay where they went cheap sometimes. I posted on CT about these here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/budget-countermarks-vindex-pr-and-lysimachos-with-seleucid-anchor.341027/#post-3574205 Mine are in poor condition: The Hercules head countermark is a mystery to me - the countermark itself is used a lot on provincials - the RPC countermarks database shows several - see here: https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/countermark But I don't know - I've never seen one with a PR countermark What ever it is, it is pretty cool! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ Numismatics Posted April 11 · Member Share Posted April 11 (edited) The Hercules C/M is found on coins in the lower Danube region, so it makes sense that most of them are found on provincial issues. Mike's coins with the PR mark look like they could be Agrippa asses struck during Caligula's reign. The OP coin may be an issue of Tiberius? Countermarks often served to re-tariff coins that were already in circulation, but we rarely know why they needed to be re-tariffed. In the case of these extremely worn early bronzes, my guess is that they were so worn that merchants refused to accept them. The countermarks were perhaps a way for local authorities to say, "these coins are still legal tender even though they're almost demolished." But that's just a wild guess. Edited April 11 by JAZ Numismatics 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted April 11 · Member Share Posted April 11 12 minutes ago, JAZ Numismatics said: "these coins are still legal tender even though they're almost demolished." But that's just a wild guess. I think that is a pretty good guess. My thoughts exactly. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Posted April 11 · Member Author Share Posted April 11 Thank you @Marsyas Mike & @JAZ Numismatics for your input. @Marsyas Mike: You write that the Hercules head countermark is used on provincials a lot and refering to the RPC database. However I am not able to find a single specimen there with the head to the left. Is this just me? Am I not using the search correctly? Any help or a direct link to a specimen would be very much appreciated. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romismatist Posted April 12 · Member Share Posted April 12 There is a Hercules countermark in the first link that @Marsyas Mike provided... it's also on an as of Agrippa. Hercules As of Agrippa: Head of Hercules (Melqart?) 29mm 9.0g, Countermark Martini Pangerl Collection 99 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted April 12 · Member Share Posted April 12 7 hours ago, Severus said: Thank you @Marsyas Mike & @JAZ Numismatics for your input. @Marsyas Mike: You write that the Hercules head countermark is used on provincials a lot and refering to the RPC database. However I am not able to find a single specimen there with the head to the left. Is this just me? Am I not using the search correctly? Any help or a direct link to a specimen would be very much appreciated. I do have some difficulty with the RPC countermark database - I've never really figured out a way to search it, so I just scroll page after page. There might be more Hercules countermarks on another page deeper in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Posted April 12 · Member Author Share Posted April 12 (edited) @Romismatist: I am aware that there are Hercules countermarks in the RPC database (the link provided in the first reply to my post). My "problem" is that it is always head RIGHT and never head LEFT as on my specimen. I can not open the link in your post, but it cites Martini Pangerl Collection 99, which is also head right. Maybe I am overthinking it. There might not be a huge significance to the portrait looking to left or right. RPC online seems to share this thought, as nothing happened after submission. Edited April 12 by Severus last sentence added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinmaster Posted April 12 · Member Share Posted April 12 A great source is: Werz, U. (2009), Gegenstempel auf Aesprägungen der frühen römischen Kaiserzeit im Rheingebiet - Grundlagen, Systematik, Typologie (Winterthur). see here and here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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