Constantine VIII & Basil II Anonymous Æ Follis, class A3...

[ewomack]

The edges of this Anonymous Follis almost look like it had to be cut out of something. Apart from the exposed small chunk on obverse right, much of the edge has the same color of sand patina. Otherwise, the surface has a dark greenish-grey patina with patches of sandy patina scattered throughout. Only a few letters of "+EMMA-NOVHA" remain on both sides of the obverse and the reverse has some real wear on the right side, though most of the letters remain legible. The portrait has some slight wear on it, which shows more or less detail depending on the angle of light pointed at it. All in all, it looked "good enough" to me, especially considering the price, to add to the growing pile. Not all references recognize Class A3, apparently. Sear calls it "intermediate in weight between Classes A1 and A2," with an average weight between 9-10 gm. Dumbarton Oaks, again according to Sear (I still need my own physical copy of DOC), considers A3 a continuation of A2 that persisted through the reign of Romanus III and early into the reign of Michael IV, when Class B took over. Sommer lists 10 variations on Class A3 (40.3.1 - 40.3.10), with differences most noticeable on the reverse decorations above and below the text. This example almost perfectly matches the photo of 40.3.6, though the obverse has considerably more wear. So much for buying fewer coins this year.

Constantine VIII & Basil II (Circa 1025); Æ Anonymous Follis, class A3, Obv: "+EMMA-NOVHA," Facing bust of Christ, left hand holding the book of Gospels, right hand making blessing gesture; Rev: "+IhSUS  XRISTUS BASILEU BASILE" in 4 lines; 27mm x 29mm, 10.41g; DOC A2.41, Sommer 40.3.6, Sear 1818

 

Post any Byzantine coins you bought but probably shouldn't have 😁

[ela126]

Really great obverse on this thing. A solid purchase, one to be happy with. I’ve seen plenty of good A2’s but good A3s don’t seem as common. (Granted this isn’t an area I’m super familiar with)

Mentioning Byzantine coins one didn’t need to buy but did, I might have too many to list. Recent one I can stand behind a little bit due to rarity, but maybe not its overall quality..

Constantine IV - Follis (the return of the big ones! For a little while) - Constantinople - SB 1173 - 15.54g (likely 20g for the full flan). I bought this very dirty (and damaged already). The doubling on the portrait became obvious, which was a bit of a letdown, but the low wear/high detail on the reverse was really welcome, never really see non circulated examples like this. I only assume the flan broke on minting or soon after. Some corrosion and striking flatness but what are you gonna do.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

The A3 is quite a fine coin and I am very envious of the large Constantine IV follis, a bucket list want. 

[ewomack]

Yes, @ela126, a very interesting Constantine IV type that I've personally never seen for sale or in person in the few years that I've been looking through Byzantine coins. It's a cool type. I can definitely understand why you felt the need to buy it, especially if the price was right.

On 2/22/2024 at 9:24 PM, ela126 said:

Really great obverse on this thing. A solid purchase, one to be happy with. I’ve seen plenty of good A2’s but good A3s don’t seem as common. (Granted this isn’t an area I’m super familiar with)

I'm still learning about this series myself. I would love to find a really nice A2 with an enormous flan, but so far no luck. The A3 above is only my third anonymous type. I've come across a decent Class B and Class G, which I've shared here before over the past year or so (so why not again? 😄). I still haven't liberated the Class B from its slab. Other things seem to always take precedence. I really resisted the anonymous types initially, possibly because of their theme. Now I find these coins fascinating historically and aesthetically, but I fear a little that some people will think (or assume) that I'm a religious fanatic for collecting them. I'm not. But I guess I should have lived long enough by now to have learned not to worry about what other people think of me, especially other people who make baseless assumptions. Regardless, I sometimes still feel a little self-conscious showing these particular types off. Strange.

Romanus III (1028-1034); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class B, Obv: IC to left, XC to right, to bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, holding book of Gospels; Rev: IS XS / BAS ILE / BAS ILE to left and right above and below cross on three steps; 29 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1823

Romanus IV Diogenes AD (1068-1071); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class G, Obv: IC-XC to left and right of bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, right hand raised, scroll in left, all within border of large dots; Rev: MP-ΘV to left and right of Mary, nimbate, ands raised, all inside border of large dots; 26-28 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1867

[Al Kowsky]

For comparison, the Class A2 follis pictured below I won at a Roma auction 5 years ago.

 

[ela126]

4 hours ago, ewomack said:

Yes, @ela126, a very interesting Constantine IV type that I've personally never seen for sale or in person in the few years that I've been looking through Byzantine coins. It's a cool type. I can definitely understand why you felt the need to buy it, especially if the price was right.

I'm still learning about this series myself. I would love to find a really nice A2 with an enormous flan, but so far no luck. The A3 above is only my third anonymous type. I've come across a decent Class B and Class G, which I've shared here before over the past year or so (so why not again? 😄). I still haven't liberated the Class B from its slab. Other things seem to always take precedence. I really resisted the anonymous types initially, possibly because of their theme. Now I find these coins fascinating historically and aesthetically, but I fear a little that some people will think (or assume) that I'm a religious fanatic for collecting them. I'm not. But I guess I should have lived long enough by now to have learned not to worry about what other people think of me, especially other people who make baseless assumptions. Regardless, I sometimes still feel a little self-conscious showing these particular types off. Strange.

Romanus III (1028-1034); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class B, Obv: IC to left, XC to right, to bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, holding book of Gospels; Rev: IS XS / BAS ILE / BAS ILE to left and right above and below cross on three steps; 29 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1823

Romanus IV Diogenes AD (1068-1071); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class G, Obv: IC-XC to left and right of bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, right hand raised, scroll in left, all within border of large dots; Rev: MP-ΘV to left and right of Mary, nimbate, ands raised, all inside border of large dots; 26-28 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1867

2 more very pleasant examples. Low wear on the high points, and no dirt obscuring anything. Super nice.

I was a bit in the same boat regarding these pieces. Initially my 2nd and 3rd Byzantine pieces were Anonymous Follis and I was a little turned off on the obvious religious theme of the coins. I wanted coins, not Christian relics.. so I stayed away for quite some time.

Now that I’ve learned quite a bit more, and understand the coins during this period, I also appreciate them. I’ve assembled a few good ones in the collection. I’m not directly seeking out more, but if a good one were in front of me, I’d be happy to pick it up.

 

[Valentinian]

You can read my page on anonymous folles and the so-called "Class A3":

http://augustuscoins.com/ed/ByzAnon/index.html

Below the table of types the page says

" Basil II died in 1025 and the terminal date of Class A2 is not known. Metcalf (1970, 1979) proposed a Class A3 with no change in design but a reduction in weight to about 2/3 the previous weight, that is, a weight of about 8 to 11 grams. He also proposed some were minted at "central Greek" local mints. He made the distinction between Class A2 and Class A3 using weights, style, and find locations. In his classification, certain ornament varieties in the table are given to Class A3 and some to central Greek mints. He asserted that older publications misclassify many Class A3 coins as Class A1 because coins with light weights that did not fit into Class A2 were put into Class A1, but with his scheme could be put into Class A3 using the ornaments above and below the reverse legend to make the distinction. For details, see Coinage in South-Eastern Europe, 820-1396  (published 1979).  Although Sear mentions Class A3, most sources, including this page, have chosen to lump all sizes of Class A coins after Class A1 into Class A2 and omit Class A3. His Ph.D. student Vasso studied the matter and decided there were not central Greek mints and there is no distinctive Class A3. This web page agrees with Vasso and does not distinguish Class A3."

So, the idea of "Class A3" coins has been discarded. There are still Class A2 coins of quite different sizes, but the reason to call the smaller ones A3 is not convincing. Remember, Basil II and this type lasted 50 years. It is not surprising that the size decreased over time. That's just the ancient version of inflation.

This one is considered the first type--large at 35 mm and 19.76 grams.


 

Class A2. Sear 1813. DOC 3.2 page 645, ornament type 1, plate XLVIII, A2.1.1.




 

[ewomack]

3 minutes ago, Valentinian said:

So, the idea of "Class A3" coins has been discarded. There are still Class A2 coins of quite different sizes, but the reason to call the smaller ones A3 is not convincing. Remember, Basil II and this type lasted 50 years. It is not surprising that the size decreased over time. That's just the ancient version of inflation.

Interesting. Has the discarding of A3 been published somewhere? Is that a consensus? The latest edition of Sommer, which came out late last year (I think in November, 2023) includes 10 variations of Class A3. So that book, at least, hasn't discarded it.

[Valentinian]

26 minutes ago, ewomack said:

The latest edition of Sommer

Are you referring to Sam Sommer, "Ancient Coins: Newbie Guide To Ancient Coins: Learn How To Purchase Ancients and Sell Online For Big Profit"?  

Often popular works have not kept up on scholarly disputes. I give more weight to the latest peer-reviewed published scholarship. 

[ewomack]

3 hours ago, Valentinian said:

Are you referring to Sam Sommer, "Ancient Coins: Newbie Guide To Ancient Coins: Learn How To Purchase Ancients and Sell Online For Big Profit"?  

Often popular works have not kept up on scholarly disputes. I give more weight to the latest peer-reviewed published scholarship. 

No, I am not referring to that book. I didn't even know that book existed and, given the title, I'm glad that I wasn't aware of it. Now I can't unsee it. Given that title, it's not even a book that I would consider reading.

I am referring to "Die Münzen des Byzantinischen Reiches 491-1453" by Andreas Urs Sommer, the 2nd edition ("2. Auflage"), published by Battenberg in Germany. This Sommer is an academic and I've seen him cited in numerous places and in many attributions. Page 411 of this book delineates 10 variations of Class A3 (40.3.1 - 40.3.10). This book's 2nd edition was published in (late) 2023.

As for peer-reviewed scholarship, can you cite any that supports the elimination of Class A3? I'd be curious to see it.

[Valentinian]

15 hours ago, ewomack said:

any that supports the elimination of Class A3?

I'd also love to read more about that. The one source I know is 

Penna, Vasso. "Byzantine Monetary Affairs During the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th Centuries," a PhD thesis of over 400 pages from Oxford University by Vassiliki Athanassopoulou-Pennas, available here at Oxford University's research archive:
 https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:02e4cf82-a638-4bd2-a45b-09c17c585dc8

[Valentinian]

My "anonymous folles" page has references, one of which is to a long thread on Forum which updates the list of ornamentation:
"Ornamentation on Anonymous Byzantine Class A2 & A3 Folles
(An Integration and Update of the Bellinger and Grierson Tables)"
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Anonymous Byzantine Class A Folles

and has a long thread of coins that members show that were possibly not on the DOC list.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=98006.0

Metcalf, Coinage in South-Eastern Europe, discussed Class A2 and A3 on pages 55-62. He proposes that Class A3 comprises types in Bellinger 31-2, 29/41, 43-7, 24, 39-40. (The Bellinger list is illustrated below)

This is from Metcalf (long ago, 1979. Many ornament-combinations have been added since then) but it allows you to see which ornaments he proposed to belong to Class A3. Perhaps someone could look to see if Sommers' Class A3 types are those proposed by Metcalf. 



Apparently there are many people who pay close attention to classes and their ornaments. A applaud their work, but am not one of them.