maridvnvm Posted January 7 · Member Share Posted January 7 (edited) For people who have seen bits of my collection you will know that there are large chunks of it where I have managed to match dies between coins. Finding more reverse dies matched to single obverse dies is an active part of how I collect. In this case however I am more excited because of the lack of a die match. In the 9th Emission of Probus from Lugdunum the officina marks change to the letters A, B, C and D, sometimes retrograde, and are placed in the left and right fields on the reverse. There is one exception to this. Bastien documents a reverse die where the officina mark is in the exe rather than the field. This is illustrated by two examples, both from the same die pair. Some years ago I was lucky enough to obtain my own example, which is also from the same die pair. Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right Rev:– TEMPOR FELICIT, Felicitas standing right, holding caduceus and cornucopiae Minted in Lugdunum (B in exe) Emission 9, Officina 1. January to August A.D. 282 Reference:– Cohen 727. Bastien 439. RIC 129 var. Bust type F Over the years I have only seen one other example come onto the market, also from the same die pair. So what? The changing of the officina mark or the placement of the officina mark is normally used to differentiate between emissions at the mint. Is this an indications that the mint had started a 10th emission at Lugdunum, which had to be curtailed upon hearing of the death of the emperor? Looking at the dating of the emissions at Lugdunum (Bastien) we can see that the 9th emission had been running for some time and could well have been due to change. Emission 1 :- October A.D.276 Emission 2 :- November to December A.D. 276 Emission 3 :- Early A.D.277 Emission 4:- Mid to Late A.D.277 Emission 5 :- Late A.D. 277 to Early A.D. 278 Emission 6 :- A.D. 278 to A.D. 279 Emission 7 :- Summer A.D. 281 Emission 8 :- Autumn to End A.D. 281 Emission 9 :- January to August A.D. 282 A single die however does not lend credence to a new emission. It could have been an error by a single engraver. A second die might well strengthen this case. Now my new acquisition. The same type with the officina mark in the exe. Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right Rev:– TEMPOR FELICIT, Felicitas standing right, holding caduceus and cornucopiae Minted in Lugdunum (B in exe) Emission 9, Officina 1. January to August A.D. 282 Reference:– Cohen 727. Bastien 439. RIC 129 var. Bust type F 3.64 gms, 23.19 mm. 0 degrees This might just be the start of strengthening the case for a previously undocumented 10th emission running from some time around August A.D. 282 until the death of the emperor was notified. to the mint Edited January 7 by maridvnvm 12 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted January 7 · Supporter Share Posted January 7 That sounds like a fascinating research subject. Something that you can relay to us as you find more information. I know very little about the coins of Probus so my appreciation to you and other specialists grows each time the subjects are posted. I do not specialise, having only been collecting ancients for less than two years, so only acquire coins because they appeal to me. I have only one Probus and that is also from Lugdunnum Probus, 276-282 AD. AR Antoninianus (4.98 gm; 23 mm). Lugdunum mint. IMP C PROBVS . P . F . AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust right. PAX AVG, Pax standing left with branch in upraised hand and raising hem of skirt while holding sceptre; Officina D in left field. Pleasant toning. RIC 119(D.RC) 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted January 7 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted January 7 (edited) Excellent research and an elegant hypothesis. Very cool. I have two Probi and this is the best one (avatar coin, too) Probus 276-282 C.E. Obv: Helmeted, spear and shield toting bust left VIRTVS PROBI AVG Rev: Sol standing left with upraised arm, globe in left hand, nude but for chamlys CONSERVAT AVG Ticinum mint Ref: RIC 351; Cohen 199. Sear 11969. Note: This exact type also appears on aureii of Ticinum according to Wildwinds, reported as CONSERVAT AVG however the illustrative example bears the reverse legend ORIENS AVG Edited January 7 by Ancient Coin Hunter added data about aureii 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maridvnvm Posted January 7 · Member Author Share Posted January 7 The CONSERVAT AVG type certainly does appear on Aurei from Ticinum. Here is an example from the same obverse legend as yours. Lanz Auktion 147, November 2009. I have a few of these CONSERVAT AVG from Ticinum. Here are a couple for comparison. Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the front Rev:– CONSERVAT AVG, Sol standing, looking left, right hand raised, left holding globe Minted in Ticinum (TXXT in exe) Emission 2 Officina 2. A.D. 276 Reference:– RIC 347 var. Bust type C (front) (Not listed with this bust type in RIC) Bust type C seen from the front is scarcer at this mint than those seen from the rear. Obv:– IMP C PROBVS AVG CONS II, Radiate and cuirassed bust left wearing imperial mantle and holding eagle tipped scepter Rev:– CONSERVAT AVG, Sol standing, looking left, right hand raised, left holding globe Minted in Ticinum (TXXT) Emission 4, Officina 3. A.D. 278 Reference:– RIC 352 Bust type H 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted January 7 · Supporter Share Posted January 7 (edited) Very interesting - thanks for sharing @maridvnvm and congrats on the great find. Is there a "Bust Type" change as well? Here's my much less unusual example of the emission 9 TEMPOR FELICIT from Lyon: Probus (276-282), AE Antoninianus, Lyon/Lugdunum, struck AD 282, 3.71g, 21mm Obv: IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, radiate and curaissed bust of Probus right viewed from 3/4 facing. (Bastien bust code: B) Rev: TEMPOR FELICIT /B/-//-, Felicitas standing with head facing right, with a long caduceus in her right hand, and an cornucopia in her left. (Type C) Ref: RIC : 129, Bastien : 386 this specific variant with B in left field is ID# 174 Edited January 7 by Sulla80 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted January 7 · Supporter Share Posted January 7 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Sulla80 said: Ref: RIC : 129, Bastien : 386 this specific variant with B in left field is ID# 174 FYI - this example with B in exergue from CGB with note could be relevant too: : https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=334441 “Temporum Felicitas”, (Happy Times). Superficial silvering, lightweight. Pierre Bastien only noted two copies in 1976. We did not find any relevant die identity. This is the third copy published. Will take n° 439c in Supplement III of Bastien. Edited January 7 by Sulla80 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maridvnvm Posted January 7 · Member Author Share Posted January 7 @Sulla80 Many thanks. An excellent find. It also looks like a reverse die match to my new example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted January 7 · Supporter Share Posted January 7 Thanks for the interesting post. Is it the lack of an obverse die match that suggests it's a new emission, or a lack of multiple obverse die matches? Or would more than one reverse die suggest that anyway, regardless of obverse die matches? Conversely, if there was an obverse die match to this and other reverse types, would that mean anything different? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maridvnvm Posted January 7 · Member Author Share Posted January 7 It would very much depend. It is the multiple dies with the different officina mark positioning that is of primary interest. Mutiple dies might strengthen the argument for an intentional positioning of the officina mark rather than a random whim/accident by an individual engraver whose error might have beenm spotted quite quickly and withdrawn, leading to some scarcity. Finding obverse die matches to other coins would be interesting but not necessarily deterministic as obverse dies may well be used between issues. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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